When will formZ be ready for the Mac M1 chips?

[DanM]

The state of FZ in my business is very sad. We run an old version of FZ on an Old Mac so we can access old projects.

Only few years ago FZ was the main tool in our company.

To be fair, the reason we moved away from FZ is not related only to Lack of support for M1 macs but it accelerated the transition. The plan was to use FZ in tandem with another CAD system but now we use it less and less.

[FZnoob]

On 9/11/2022 at 7:51 AM, 3dworks said:

almost half year after my last post checking in here. it's sad not to see any progress. my transition to working with my M1 macbook pro is 99% complete. my workflow including cinema 4d for scene setup and rendering (with the octane plugin) and all the relevant adobe apps for post production is working extremely well on M1. i don't want to switch back to my desktop just for modeling anymore (btw. it's also a way to reduce the energy bill). in the next weeks i will definitely move on learning and trying to use in production the competitor modeling app. it's looking like a sad ending after almost 25 (!) years of using formz on macs.

If my company would let me I would switch to C4D in a heartbeat.

[Des]

18 hours ago, FZnoob said:

If my company would let me I would switch to C4D in a heartbeat.

That's your prerogative, way off topic and not very constructive. From my own perspective (and this relates to architectural modelling only), FormZ is a faster 3d modeller whatever platform.

To get back on topic, I do think ADDS should get their skates on regarding the Mac Mseries chips and at least fill us in as to where they are at the moment.

[bbuxton]

I don't think Autodessys are dragging their feet here. The elephant in the room is ACIS. Sure FormZ could be rewritten from the ground up to run on Parasolids and maybe have a new render engine too but how long will that take and what will it cost? 

I trust Autodessys to make the right choice here,  it would be nice to hear from them on this forum a bit more frequently, or even a monthly newsletter by email.

I don't understand why FZNoob would switch to Cinema4D in a heartbeat. It is not a CAD program, it works great alongside FormZ but it is not a replacement.

If you must have something working in the Apple ecosystem then look at Shapr3D it has the speed of FormZ's push/pull workflow, nice rounds and chamfers etc. It syncs across iPad, Mac and PC but does not have the breadth of FormZ's features - so a temporary compliment rather than a replacement.

I wish it was Bonzai3D working well on the iPad, but until then.....

btw I have found absolutely nothing that suggests Spatial are developing anything for ARM/M1, please share links if you see evidence to the contrary

Edited September 16, 2022 by bbuxton

[Tech]

Sorry for the lack of updates on this issue. The current version of form•Z (9.2) is compatible with Apple Silicon chips using the Rosetta 2 emulation built into macOS 12.

We are actively working on a native Apple Silicon version of form•Z. In fact, all of the work for this is complete on our side, however, we are waiting on Dassault to release a native version of ACIS.  As soon as this is released, we do not expect it will take very long to integrate. 
    
We are also working on a Metal implementation to replace the OpenGL-based features in form•Z on macOS. This improves the graphics performance on the Apple Silicon chips most notably on the M1 Pro and M1 Max.

[erikmar]

Does Dassault provide any timeline for an M1 native version of ACIS? If that could be shared, it would enable us to plan ahead. Also, is it fair to assume that the new PowerCADD port will be M1 native?

[Tech]

Dassault has provided a date to us, but unfortunately, we are not at liberty to share this information publicly. PowerCADD 10 is already native.

[Anwar]

I hope Windows 11 on ARM is going to be supported natively too.  Next month the Surface Pro 9 will merge the Surface Pro 8 and Surface Pro X into one product with Intel or ARM CPU options, thus fully promoting Windows on ARM to a mainstream product.  Blender is already working on a native ARM version as their website says "not available yet...".

[Gumby_Doyen]

In response to da  FZnoob.

I am also a long time Z user, almost 30 years.  Yes, I'm also very frustrated.  BUT . . . I once used C4D around release 11, primarily for rendering.  Due to the fact I didn't like ugly slow ass render zone.  I eventually stopped using C4D for various reason.  Now recently I bought into C4D again, release 2023, pretty much for the same reasons the first time.  I want to purchase vray for Z, but I'm hesitant because Z too buggy.  The Z dudes don't seem to say much.  The disscusion forums  seem for the most part dead, dead, dead. The same way I think that Z might end up.

Ironically the first thing I wanted to set up in C4D is my world grid/ working plane.  For the life of me I couldn't find the f-ing  numeric setting anywhere for the major and minor grids.   I hopped onto the C4D form and asked Dr. Sassi, where they moved the settings. His response was they eliminated the numeric input settings a few releases ago for their new super duper dynamic grid. I about went through the ceiling.  He suggested I make my own grid and use that instead.  I haven't responded yet, but this is what I'm going to say to Sassi, "I can also make a perfect circle with a line tool".  Yes C4D is very cool. I love the fact it's super stable.  BUT . . . it will never have the modeling speed and flexibility of Z.  Sassi even went to refer to programs with static grids with numeric settings as CAD.  So I guess C4D was a CAD program until a few years ago, before they changed their grid.  What a joke. The whole CAD vs. animator modeling program, has become out dated. It's like comparing AutoCAD with BIM tools to Blender.

What I want is, Z to be super stable. Various fast beautiful lighting and rendering options with multi layered node based texturing, and good UV tools. High performance modeling tools, including real mesh tools.  Good animation, minus character rigging.  Hell, I would even throw in a painting program, and extensions for tree/plant apps.  At this point I would bow down and call FormZ  my master.

Oh yes, one last thing.  Stable and predictable import/ export options.

Come on Auto Z dudes, make it happen.  Everyone is waiting.

If you can't, sellout Z to Nemetschek or someone else, and they'll figure it out.

Edited September 17, 2022 by Gumby_Doyen

[Gumby_Doyen]

BTW here''s Nemetschek phone number.

Tel. +49 89 540459-0

Ask for Georg.

[bbuxton]

Nemetschek have Vectorworks, which adopted the Parasolid kernal some time ago.

For it's target market Vectorworks is great, but it is not the same market Autodessys is serving.

Can you quantify how Nemetschek might do a better job than Autodessys? The development of Vectorworks has been a frustrating experience it terms of direct form creation and reshaping, Vectorworks cannot compete with FormZ for this. However if you want to lay out a nice graphic of your architectural drawings it is pretty good.

Immediately after Autodessys just replied that the work is done for the new platform and that they are just waiting for the ACIS kernals, your comments appear rude and rather stupid.

Maybe you should give Georg a link to your comment here, I'm sure he will be delighted - maybe even give you a free seat of Vectorworks as a thank you.

[R2D2]

True - be careful what you wish for.

If FZ would sell out to Nemetschek (for example); Georg would likely put it on the shelf and strip out the best stuff, maybe add some of it into Vectorworks, ArchiCAD or even Allplan, they already own all of these + solobri for BIM and more. Then they force you into a paid subscription at 3K a year, good luck.

I hope ADS can stay independent, transition to M1 , revamp the interface and have a stable build. 

On top of that, if they have some money left, invest it into at least some sort of basic .IFC Format support (based on STEP, which is there) so they can be visible to basic collision detection and BIM software. 

[Gumby_Doyen]

I actually have owed Vector Works, due it’s very popular among art directors in the film and television industry, which I am a part of.  I paid the big money for the complete suite, and basically didn’t like it, for a bunch of reasons.  I would find myself always wanting to use Z.  So I sold my license two years later.

I doubt Nemetschek would shelve Z. Look at their multitude of 3D offerings, all are for 3D, but for different types of users.  Take C4d example which started as a stand alone render as FastRay which then evolved into today’s Maxon, now under the guidance of David McGavran.  Who in turn bought out Redshift and ZBrush, plus others. From a marketing standpoint Maxon is in a war with Autodesk.  Maxon has allied themselves with Adobe. They are on move, ready to advance, incrementally displaying their prowess. This is marketing.  Align with the strong, conquer the week.

Hmmm . . . and where is Z’s marketing plan. Quietly hiding in some remote bunker forum, patiently waiting for their ACIS ammo to arrive from Dassault Systemes.  AutoDesSys needs to shake things up a bit and communicate with their user base.  How about regularly sending out emails that intrigue people with “things” coming their way. Instead we get some announcement on the Z forum about an alliance with PowerCADD a company already crushed by the likes of Autodesk and Nemetschek.  I read the PowerCADD thread, where some users have been thrown a bone with no meat on it. The discussion is a snooze. A lot of pats on the back. Honestly I’m not very interested in CAD so to speak. I just hope it helps out both parties, and AutoDesSys doesn’t blow their modest wad of resources on it.

From day one of Z’s inception, it has referred to itself as a general modeling program.  This is, and has always has been, it's ultimate strength.  It shouldn’t become more like AutoCAD, or more like MoGraph, or Maya.  It would really help though if it played easily, not more easily, but seamlessly on some level.  Take for for example Maxon and Adobe.

To Mr. bbuxton. I see l you’re located in Tokyo. Your statement that my comments appear rude and rather stupid.  I can see Japan has molded your mind according to their rules of engagement.  Don’t criticize, don’t be ironic, and never interrupt.  Sorry bro . . . but no apologies from this dyslexic American of Celtic lineage.  I’m sure my wife, who’s a Japanese national would totally agree with you.  Though I may piss her off, for being what I am.  She also knows I am a person of total dedication looking over the horizon, forging  ahead, to protect her interests.

My brothers of 3D, all I’m asking is for our beloved formZ  to the same for us.

Begin communicating in a big beautiful way, express yourself, shake us up, get us excited, show us hope.  Not just the likes us, burrowed in this practically hidden forum.  Raise the flag, get on the horn to the entire user base.  Create some buzz,  be tactical.

Perhaps I’m being naive, and it’s too late.

I really hope not.

See ya around the playground.

Edited September 17, 2022 by Gumby_Doyen

[santa]

I am sorry to say this, but I agree with much of what @Gumby_Doyen says. As a user since 1994, I can honestly say that FZ has turned into a bore and a chore! It has become an endless groundhog cycle of brief excitement over a new release, followed by YEARS of bug reports and (un)usability issues. I have pleaded this before, and I will do so again: ADS please listen to your user base! They say that "if it ain't broke, don't fix it"....well it IS broke, and you don't seem to be able to fix it. Blender found itself in a similar corner all those years ago. They sold the code to the FOSS community….. and the rest is history! Innovate or perish.

[bbuxton]

@Gumby_Doyen my choice of words was a bit off, sorry.

However, given how rarely Autodessys comment here, responding with Nemetschek's number felt a bit thoughtless and counterproductive. 

While we all do very different work with FormZ, we should remember that Autodessys is not a huge souless corporation, squeezing everything it can out of us to feed its shareholders. It is much closer to its userbase and if it could speak up more, perhaps frustration would not fester as much as it has.

I really hope Autodessys will take this on board and share something with us on a monthly basis.

[snow]

On 9/17/2022 at 4:13 PM, Gumby_Doyen said:

AutoDesSys needs to shake things up a bit and communicate with their user base.  How about regularly sending out emails that intrigue people with “things” coming their way. Instead we get some announcement on the Z forum about an alliance with PowerCADD a company already crushed by the likes of Autodesk and Nemetschek.

On 9/17/2022 at 10:03 PM, bbuxton said:

While we all do very different work with FormZ, we should remember that Autodessys is not a huge souless corporation, squeezing everything it can out of us to feed its shareholders. It is much closer to its userbase and if it could speak up more, perhaps frustration would not fester as much as it has.

I really hope Autodessys will take this on board and share something with us on a monthly basis.

Small companies like ADS needs this kind of transparency.  The Nemetcheck's and Autodesks of the world have the luxury of pumping out multiple updates per year enhancing the software, adding tools, updating the UI, and fixing bugs so a constant interaction with the userbase isn't required.  ADS and PowerCADD do not have that luxury so I feel a certain level of transparency is owed to the users.  One forum post every 1-2 months doesn't cut it and it gives the impression of abandonment.  I've started using a competitor's software and their forum is alive with (sometimes multiple) developer responses per post and links for tracking bugs.  This is also an independent company.  I hate to compare ADS to everyone out there, but how can us users NOT compare when there is SO much out there?

Suggestion: hire someone with a marketing background?  Or these days hire a social media manager.  That can take the brand by fire and really ignite the userbase.  There needs to be more than a handful a developer responses per year. 

[FZnoob]

On 9/16/2022 at 4:51 AM, Des said:

That's your prerogative, way off topic and not very constructive. From my own perspective (and this relates to architectural modelling only), FormZ is a faster 3d modeller whatever platform.

To get back on topic, I do think ADDS should get their skates on regarding the Mac Mseries chips and at least fill us in as to where they are at the moment.

"Off topic"? I don't think so.

I was responding to another member's post, and their decision regarding this issue (with which I agreed).

To those who wish to remain on this platform, that is your choice.

To those who seek another solution, I hope it's successful.

As for me, this will be my final post on this forum.

 Adieu and happy modeling.

 

[Des]

That wasn’t meant as an insult noob. 
Stick around please

[Ivo]

Same problems with Metal on Rhino for mac.
https://discourse.mcneel.com/t/metal-on-m1-max/147033

[ZTEK]

A couple of months ago, I started using the SwitchResX utility on my Apple Mac mini M1, running my 4K display at 2560 x 1440 at 60 Hz in non-HiDPI mode (Retina).

The change in the resolution is ugly and feels weird, like going back to the '90s, but I got used to it. In any case, it's not much of a change, but I prefer the better graphic response you get, which is noticeable.

SwitchResX allows you to do different things, including creating presets associated with a particular application. I use one that automatically changes the display settings only when I use formZ, and the rest of the time, when not in use, at 60 Hz in HiDPI.

On a side note, I regret buying this 4K display and not a QHD display for this Mac mini M1 during the Apple transition period. The interpolation macOS does to scale to 4K makes things worse on the graphics side with non-native apps.

For Apple users, I leave this article about this topic.

https://bjango.com/articles/macexternaldisplays2/

I'm attaching a screenshot at full resolution, 2560 x 1440 60 Hz at 72 PPI non-HiDPI, so you can check how it looks.

Edit: the image is scaled and probably compressed when uploaded, so it's not helpful to check how it looks.

Edited November 2, 2022 by ZTEK

[ZTEK]

ACIS 23.1.0 was released on November 8, and guess what?

Finally Mac ARM platform support!

https://blog.spatial.com/news/2023-1-0

Edited December 1, 2022 by ZTEK

[3dworks]

 

[3dworks]

the new version of ACIS was released one month ago... any updates from autodessys? are you working on an update for M1 macs?

[Gary]

If you read the post above  from ZTEK closely it also says *Mac ARM platform support will come in a hotfix after this release*….

Gary

[3dworks]

On 12/5/2022 at 8:51 PM, Gary said:

If you read the post above  from ZTEK closely it also says *Mac ARM platform support will come in a hotfix after this release*….

Gary

Hi Gary I guess that was just related to the 3D InterOp Part... The ACIS Modeler is what FZ uses afaik.