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bbuxton

Please sort out the component system

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Seriously it is the worst block/symbol/component system of any 3D application I have ever come across.

 

What is the point of a component if moving or rotating either edits the original definition or explodes the instance or creates a new definition?

 

Component transforms should not be considered edits to the original definition, If I want to edit the original definition I should open it or use edit component.

 

 

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I am running into this problem with Components. I've been using formZ for 20 years and the Symbol system was always reliable. Files with placed symbols were compact. The Symbol Library file could be opened, edited and the changes would be reflected in all instances of the symbol anywhere it was placed.

Now, with the Component system, every placed Component becomes embedded, increasing the file size. What was a 3 MB file in FormZ 6.5 has become a 202 MB file in FormZ 8.5. Changing a layer a Component is on brings a dialog about changing the original Component. It shouldn't matter to the original what layer a Component is on in a scene and the Components bring their layer info with them and add it to the list of layers in the scene.

Other serious problems are happening when I edit a Component in the original library and the edit is not duplicated in the embedded Component, so the change doesn't show up in the renderings.

The purpose of embedded Components is to make the file portable so the original library is not necessary for someone else to work on it in a different location.

I have no need for portability of my FormZ files. I don't want embedded Components in my scenes. I do have a need for more compact file sizes and bulletproof synchrony with the original. Component Library.

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I'll suggest that the old method of having Library Files that then referenced proxies in the modeling file was a superior way of working with projects, especially over time, when a Library represented catagories of objects or a client's assets.  

 

I have a Library file now where I keep some assets, and when I bring them in I explode them and using a different layer. I just cant afford to have the new system screw up days of work.

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For example i have gotten this window 6 times in the last 15 minutes - even though I click "ok":

 

post-9808-0-52821800-1513242247_thumb.png

 

I thought that maybe I was doing something wrong in my manipulation of components,but after reading severalposts where others are having trouble with this, I want to weigh in.

 

Can Support give an idea on when this will be fixed?

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Generally speaking, I'm of the opinion that the components system needs a complete overhall top to bottom. To be blunt, a lot of the models are ugly and very basic. Too basic to be of any real use. The whole thing needs to be modernised.

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Funny I used to be a FormZ user (v7 and 8) but the terrible component issues was one of the main reasons I had to look elsewhere and have been using sketchup for the last few years. FormZ is definitely more powerful but components/general 90's interface and slow snapping tools made me switch. I keep checking back in to see what has changed and if its worth switching back but I see the same issues are being reported. Maybe V9 might solve everything when it comes out.

 

Side winge but the quality of the FormZ interface really jars against the new vray plugin. One is modern the other was out of date even when it was brought out back with Bonzai v1!

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+1 here too, Symbols were stable and just worked.  Components just don't.  For as important as this functionality is, it not receiving higher priority than some of the other stuff of late is quite vexing.  We _need_ a working Symbols / Components system, and ASAP!

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I agree that the components need to be sorted, I've weighed in on this for some time now..

 

But in the mean time until it is sorted, I follow some rules I've developed as I still use components a lot. I get no problems now.

 

1. I always create my components in a separate file and use "import component" into my project. The origin is important.

2. Right click the component in the component manager and select "always update".

3. In the separate component file I always name the layer the same as the component so it sits in it's own layer in the main model and I know what's what.

4. If you don't want the component to alway face the camera, make sure to choose 'fixed" in the tool options parameters.

I got caught out a couple of times where, say for example I use a bollard component which looks the same from any direction but I forgot to turn on fixed rotation. They turn to the camera and really slow down the model. I think it should be set to "Fixed Rotation" by default.

5. Make sure your file paths are not changed after inserting components, that goes for everything like materials and textures.

 

Most of this probably goes without saying, it's mostly for newer users of components, but if you follow these rules they should behave.

 

Another tip is:

Create a "placement component", say a low resolution circle and call it something you remember.

If you get the warning that any other component is different etc. Use the "Replace components" tool on the component to change to the circle component.

Delete the problem component, re-import the component from it's file and replace the circle component with that. Your warnings will now stop.

 

Ok, I think I broke the record for saying "component" the most times in one post  :huh:  :D

 

Hope this helps,

 

Des

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one nice thing with the older symbols system was also that we could easily create low res proxys for massive scenes. missing in components.

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I decided to use components after a long hiatus of not using them.  I created a single bracket used a couple dozen times in the scene.  I wanted to start organizing parts of the scenes by layer BUT as soon as I selected a new layer that was housing a component I got the dreaded "component update" dialogue.  So I selected "create a new component" thinking would create one new one in the selected layer... but it created 15 of the same component with the same layer(!!).  

 

I didn't want to deal with 15+ separate components so I exploded all the components and all my brackets are inside out.

 

Reverse tool each bracket twice and now it's how i should have started out all along... 

 

Don't use components. 

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I decided to use components after a long hiatus of not using them.  I created a single bracket used a couple dozen times in the scene.  I wanted to start organizing parts of the scenes by layer BUT as soon as I selected a new layer that was housing a component I got the dreaded "component update" dialogue.  So I selected "create a new component" thinking would create one new one in the selected layer... but it created 15 of the same component with the same layer(!!).  

 

I didn't want to deal with 15+ separate components so I exploded all the components and all my brackets are inside out.

 

Reverse tool each bracket twice and now it's how i should have started out all along... 

 

Yeah, not only are Components unstable and generally a pain, but when you try to rid yourself of them, they take an extra big bite.  Unacceptable.

 

ADS devs, please either fix Components, or replace them with something that works!  This is too important and commonly-used functionality to leave in this state for so long.

Edited by jwiede

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I am trying Des's recommendations, but still very buggy. I am perhaps not as thorough as he is, though.

 

What kills me is how multiple materials appear with new components. I have hundreds of materials, many are duplicates...purge does nothing. A lot of other weird behavior not worth describing , or already has been....

 

I don't see how can anyone possible do serious (interior renderings, especially) work without a rock solid component system.

 

If there was ever a poll about which fix is everyone's priority, I'd bet this would win...is Support being silent onthis? Is there any news about an upcoming fix?

 

Incomponently yours..

 

Peter

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Hi Peter,

I agree that the components need to be a lot better, but I'm using them in all of my projects because I have no choice.

It's kind of like learning the "personality" even if it's a bit screwy. The more you use them the better they behave once you get to know them.

Maybe I've been lucky most of the time but I have had issues as well.

 

I've attached two snapshots of project information of a couple of projects I'm working on, one is an interior (542 components) and the other an exterior (1521 components).

So it's more than possible to work with them, even if they have weird moods..

 

Des

 

post-16-0-21826400-1519160119_thumb.jpeg post-16-0-41935100-1519160129_thumb.jpeg

 

PS. I also use maxwell MXS references as well, I find them to be fantastic for certain large detailed objects which I won't be changing.

They help to keep the file manageable without bogging it down.

Edited by Des

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Hi Des,

 

Ok, for instance I had a component with one MXM which 'mis-fired' -with hundreds of materials, all the log says is the name of the material which could not be found. So how to find where in all these components the poorly referenced MXM lives?

 

There seems to be no tool for this. Perhaps I should see if Pylon could add to the Maxwell error log the identity of the culprit object as well - and that whether it is a component or not..

 

I recently renamed some folders containing my textures and MXM's, and most of the Materials in my components have been edited to find the correct texture folders, but a few escaped. I cannot say it component's fault, but I wish it were easier to fix these problems in a huge complex file.

 

Then I get this issue where allof a sudden component libraries appear in the Component Manager list- they have the name of one of the objects in that library, and actually contain a set of objects... this cannot be good. SO I Trashed them with the option "Remove reference to library", except in my zeal I got rid of one I should not have.  Now that component model is lost forever (be great if 'trashed ' components went into a bin like the trash in Windows, so that one could recover them...)

 

I don't know what MXS references are.. another item on my list.

 

Anyway thanks for all info.

Peter

 

 

 

 

 

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My file structure is fairly simple and I usually keep my referenced MXM materials in it's own folder (Inside the project folder). So each project has its materials at easy reach for me to find them.

 

For example

 

"Project Folder" >

---------------------"Project File" (FormZ file)

---------------------"Project Materials Folder" (contains the mxm's and their textures folder)

---------------------"Project Components Folder" (contains the component fmz files with their materials referenced to the above). I sometimes have separate folders for different component types.

---------------------"Project MXS Folder" (contains Maxwell MXS files and their own MXM materials, I like to keep them together for future use. I can just copy the whole folder into another project folder)

 

 

Using this system creates multiple copies of materials etc. on my computer, but at least everything to do with the current project is together.

I open an existing mxm, pack and go to another location, open the new one, re-assign the textures and reference the mxm to a FormZ material.

It's not as long winded as it seems and it allows me to copy a whole project onto my laptop for example with the knowledge that I have everything I need.

 

Be really careful re-naming folders etc., especially higher up in the folder hierarchy.

 

I'd be interested in other peoples file systems. I know some use a central location for everything, but that doesn't suit me at this time.

 

Regards,

 

Des

 

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So as I have previously stated I NEVER use components.

However, I was recently asked to revise a rendering for someone on vacation.

As soon as I opened the file I saw it was full of components.

Problems began almost immediately.

 

I selected a group of components and attempted to move them.

The program crashed. 

When I reopened the file something strange happened, and they became transparent even in shaded work mode.

Furthermore, when I attempted to copy the group to a new document, I could not.

I could delete them but not copy them. 

Then if I try to render it I get an error message.

Fortunately I was able to go back to a previous version and get the component from there.

 

 

 

 

post-209-0-18115100-1519224491_thumb.png

post-209-0-71607800-1519224501_thumb.png

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