FormZ saved views to TM

[Des]

Hi guys,

So I have to move away from Maxwell due to Next Limit waving byebyes to us. I thought I’d get a year or two using it but now there’s no way to buy cloud render points. So I’m going to have to bite the bullet and invest in a killer machine to get high end Twinmotion images done (I’ve been testing on an iMac with only 4gbVram and have a TM license). I have Vray too but getting thousands of my already made assets to vray is too daunting.

I might need some advice on getting a high end PC configuration so if anyone here can offer any I’d be super appreciative.

Ok, here’s my main question if anyone has any info (maybe AutoDessys has inside info?) on if TM will be able to import FZ views?

This is my main concern considering most of my work is matching and rendering images to be superimposed onto photos I take. MaxwellZ + FormZ works beautifully in this regard. Tbh I’m quite sad about moving from MxZ, I’ll have to take a lot of time off to get a new workflow sorted. 🥲
Please chime in and thanks for reading. There’s no way I’m moving away from FormZ 😁

🎅

Des

[santa]

On 12/12/2022 at 7:10 AM, Des said:

I might need some advice on getting a high end PC configuration so if anyone here can offer any I’d be super appreciative.

I have two initial questions for you. Firstly, by PC are you referring to a Windows computer? Secondly, do you have a budget in mind? It’s no use proposing a super high-end PC if it’s unaffordable. Broadly speaking, you will get a much better bang for your buck if you assemble your own rig, however this can be a real pain in terms of effort (finding the best components at the right price) and associated time involved.

My understanding is that FZ is a single threaded application, and therefore your new PC will be more cost effective with a high-speed CPU, instead of core count. Even if you bought a computer with say a 64 core CPU, it would be wasted on FZ (and your budget), as it will only use 1 of those cores. On the other hand, a fast GPU will improve your rendering speed, as will a sensible amount of RAM.

Another option may be a render farm if (and that’s a big if) you can find one that supports FZ/TM. They require you to upload your file to a dedicated server cluster for rendering. The cost depends on a render node basis, so that the more you pay, the faster your job will be done. To be honest, I think that you will have a hard time with this option, but you never know.

[Gary]

Hello Des,

I see a post on the Maxwell forum with a few users also saying they can not buy time. The last post says the service will be back up soon. The post is made by a user, not Next Limit, but looks a bit like a quote from NL (maybe).

Do you have any definitive information?

 

thanks,

Gary

[Des]

Hi guys, thanks for responding..

Santa, yes, I'll be getting a machine hopefully with a high end CPU and GPU. While I'm not concerned with how fast FormZ is while modelling (currently I model on a 2013 iMac and it's still great for modelling), I'd still like to have the option to render in Maxwell for as long as I can. So I was looking at custom built windows PC's with the Ryzen Threadripper and with an Nvidia Geforce RTX 4080 (16gb ram) or 4090 (24gb ram) depending on price. While I will still use my two iMacs and MacBook Pro for modelling and image processing etc., I could use the PC as a powerhouse renderer. That's the idea anyway. The budget is about €5000 - €6000 but here in Ireland, everything seems to be more expensive and I don't want to order through the UK (cheeper) due to a bad experience ordering from there taking forever to arrive and being held up in customs looking for more money (Brexit).

Gary, the cloud points are still not up on the store and they haven't answered my tickets yet through the portal. So I'll wait and see what's happening when they answer me. That quote you mentioned was from near two weeks ago..

If I hear from Next Limit I'll post here.

Regarding the FormZ views to TM, ADS any news? I read that match views in TM is in the pipeline but I'd love to know when.

Des 

[Des]

I forgot to mention that while I used to use Rebus Farm for years I had to stop because at that time they only supported Maxwell 4, but in recent months they now support V5. I'm in the process of trying to get the Rebusdrop software to work but for some reason I can't. They are however trying to help me fix that so fingers crossed. When it does work, it's very good.

 

Des

[Sebastien]

Hallo so far I know you can´t import a camera view in TM... Even though I love this program there is one thing that is still blocking

me working with it for still is that it does not produce ID map Texture map and so one which makes post production in PS very very uneasy.

[Des]

Thanks Sebastian, I realise that Fz views can’t currently be brought into TM. I was hoping Autodesys had some information on when it would eventually be available. It would be the deciding factor for me to go the TM route for rendering or not.

cheers,

Des

[santa]

Des, you should be able to get a very decent computer for that kind of money! The RTX 4090 is only about 10% faster than the RTX 4080, but costs 40% more and draws 40% more power (450W versus 320W). If it was me, I would aim for two RTX 4080 GPU’s instead. Install one now, wait for the price to drop a little, and then get a second. Don’t forget that these will need a motherboard with PCIe 4.0 bus interface for optimum performance.

[Des]

Hi Santa, I went for the Ryzen 9 7950X, the Nvidia RTX4080 and 64GB ram with 2tb SSD. Hopefully I can use this to render my remaining Maxwell projects and also start dipping into TM. Many thanks for the advice.

Another question, is it possible to have a PC on the same render network (I have a 5 node license) as the Macs I use? Otherwise I can move my Maxwell license to the PC.

Cheers,

Des

[Gary]

Hello Des, I have a vague memory that Next Limit once said yes you can, and it is better to run/distribute the rendering from the Mac side. You may also want to choose "send dependancies" in the "Add Network Job Wizard" if you are not currently doing so. Please let me know how this goes.

Thanks,

Gary

[Des]

Hey Gary, thanks for that. When the computer arrives hopefully before christmas I'm sure I'll have 'great fun' setting the whole thing up 🤔🤐

On a side note, Next Limit eventually contacted me back saying..

" Hi Des, 

Sorry for the delay and thank you for contacting us. 

Yes, you are right. We are having technical problems with the cloud service and we are fixing it at this moment. We hope to get it available again soon. Probably the next week. 

We will inform you when it's available again. 

Cheers, "

So they haven't abandoned us just yet.

Des

[Des]

So the Maxwell Render cloud is back up and running..

[Justin Montoya]

That was quick!   I've been out of pocket, but may have some advice for you...

TM is pretty sweet, especially with the newer releases  with real time ray tracing on RTX GPUs, but it needs lots of VRAM, 16gb will be good, but I would have gone for a RTX 4090 24gb or even save on a RTX 3090 24gb as I have done.  But do note that TM workflow is completely different than what you are used to with Maxwell.  That's not to discourage you, but it's something to understand right away so you can approach it in a new way.  I find almost all maps and texturing need to be reworked in TM, so you are basically just working with a White model in FormZ with basic Shaded maps which do translate well.  It does not translate advanced VRay maps very well ATM.  Camera views don't come in, and I wouldn't expect them to ever come in honestly.  

The best part about TM is how it handles outside geometry assets without slowing FormZ down.  The built in library is ok, but you can import other geo directly into TM and it works really great, fast, and efficent!

I know this is a TM topic, but since you mentioned transitioning from Maxwell,  If you have the newest VRay 5 for FormZ, I think that's the easiest transition from Maxwell.  It's well integrated not unlike Maxwell and once you work through a couple of known quirks, it works remarkably well.  Nice pick on the CPU BTW!  That's as fast as my 3960x Threadripper 24c/48t in rendering it seems, but faster single core.  I have found that I used VRAY CPU rendering engine for some scenes and especially for the concept phase where it's nice to turn on the Contours feature which adds a Hidden Line like effect on top of the rendering.  Contours only works on VRAY CPU rendering ATM.  The VRAY CUDA GPU engine is also nice and works best for Interactive rendering where testing changes on the fly is quick.  You can use your CPU+GPU in hybrid rendering mode too.  Then there's the newer RTX engine which is amazingly fast by itself.  It's relatively young though and there are occasionally hiccups in it.  I only mention these things because I have found despite having a newer RTX GPU, I still use VRAY CPU a lot, and it's nice to be able to jump around depending on the project needs.

Can't wait to see some of you TM and VRay work!  You're Maxwell work has always been inspiring!  

[Jaakko]

Thanks Justin!

[Des]

Hey guys, I’m so appreciative of your advice regarding the PC stuff, I’ve almost always preferred my macs. Still do for most things but I’ve set up the new beast. Have to figure out how to turn off the flashyness but so far the render times are are quicker by about 2.5 times my 2020 iMac intel. Trying at the moment to network my mac system with it (currently using a flash stick), obvs security is preventing it (more advice needed). Tried TM briefly (after the huge downloads needed) and seems to be mega with the sample files.

Mam is sick in hospital at the moment so I’m very distracted.

Btw, NextLimit got back and they were very helpful. As soon as I get the time they’re going to help me set up the network with Maxwell better. 
Here it is

[Des]

Just to add to that, the cpu (Ryzen 9 7950X) is running at 95° centigrade during the Maxwell cpu rendering which they say is normal!  The machine has a EU energy rating of “F” which is stupidly inefficient this day and age especially if I want to batch render over night. I’m quite disappointed over that tbh. The iMac’s don’t even get hot. This machine may save on heating the office during winter but I’m not looking forward to summer for rendering 🥵

[santa]

On 12/30/2022 at 9:59 AM, Des said:

Have to figure out how to turn off the flashyness

Enter the UEFI (BIOS) by repeatedly pressing the F1 or F2 or ESC key (depending on your computer) and have a look at the fan settings in there which may include an option to turn off the LED’s. Likewise for RAM, if they also have LED’s.

Also see if your UEFI offers multi core support. I have never used AMD processors, but on my Xeon workstations it’s possible to select the number of cores used. Reducing the number may help with the high temperature, but my understanding is that the Ryzen 9 7000 series normally runs pretty hot anyway. It will only shut itself off if it reaches 105°.

Finally, all this is pretty safe, but please don’t mess too much with your UEFI! In case of uncertainty simply exit without applying the changes and try again, or call support. I would also double check if doing this voids you warranty…..it shouldn’t.
 

[Justin Montoya]

On 12/29/2022 at 3:15 PM, Des said:

Just to add to that, the cpu (Ryzen 9 7950X) is running at 95° centigrade during the Maxwell cpu rendering which they say is normal!  The machine has a EU energy rating of “F” which is stupidly inefficient this day and age especially if I want to batch render over night. I’m quite disappointed over that tbh. The iMac’s don’t even get hot. This machine may save on heating the office during winter but I’m not looking forward to summer for rendering 🥵

There's a lot that can be adjusted if you are willing to learn and experiment a bit.  

As Santa said, there is likely a RGB controller in your BIOS you can control or even turn off the lights if desired.  Or sometimes there is a separate RGB hardware controller inside the case, but that is less common these days.

You may be able to adjust the fan profiles for your CPU and case fans to get this to run cooler.  Do you happen to know what computer case this is?  Which case fans are installed?  CPU cooler model?  If the fans turn on sooner, and faster, that is best, as it doesn't let the heat build up so fast, which takes much longer to dissipate.  You can also try undervolting the CPU which is really easy to do and can yield surprising results like lower temps and higher performance (due to the turbo working better at lower temps).  I do the same on my GPU, running at 75- 85% power using the MSI Afterburner app makes the GPU run much cooler yet just as fast while rendering!  

 

Undervolting can also save you some energy, though that's not really a worry here since electrical is pretty cheap and when the computer is ON, it's usually billable hours.  But it's worth giving a shot!

Edited January 1, 2023 by Justin Montoya

[johnalexander1571]

Hey Des,

I have been doing some good pioneering into Unreal real time rendering. I have learned enough now to not look back. It does save the camera locations. I haven't got to a real composite (just animations for now), but I'm getting there. Not much more TM for me. I hope to make a little guide for both TM and Unreal for you guys. With what I am seeing in Unreal now, there's no reason at all to be rendering anymore. It is a massive time saver. I have not gone in for huge stills yet, but when I get the steps down I will pass them on to you all.

Edited January 11, 2023 by johnalexander1571
Grammer

[Andrew West]

On 12/13/2022 at 7:13 AM, Sebastien said:

Hallo so far I know you can´t import a camera view in TM... Even though I love this program there is one thing that is still blocking

me working with it for still is that it does not produce ID map Texture map and so one which makes post production in PS very very uneasy.

Sebastien

Although this is an old thread and I have been AOL for a long time now I thought I might comment on what you are looking for.  One of the great strengths of Vray is that material ID channel output to PS for post processing adjustments.  TM does it a bit differently.  You need to do an additional "clay render" of your model so that each material comes out as a unique color that can be easily selected in your PS composite.  Hope this helps. 

AW

[Tech]

Twinmotion does not support importing views though Datasmith at this time. We think it would be a great feature, too.

Twinmotion is considering this; it is a proposal on their public roadmap. Click on the appropriate button in the "Import Cameras (Views) from Datasmith Scene" item to register your interest:

https://portal.productboard.com/7pu88c9kpmqtzt8hwg6arujh/c/1027-import-cameras-views-from-datasmith-scene

 

 

[Thorsten]

i'm playing with twinmotion right now, but I can't find a "save view" option... do you really have to click on  'create an image' in the media tab?

 

 

[ZTEK]

That's right, images in Twinmotion are more similar to formZ scenes than views.