Can't draw with line on a surface...

[-andrew-]

Hi everyone,

Using 8.5.7.

I am trying to draw on a surface to connect two points (shown in image) so that I can use Reshape to eliminate some geometry. Should be simple?

I've tried about 50 times now (literally) looking for missing settings, geometry, checking to see if my surface is planar... no luck. Sometimes I can draw elsewhere on the surface, connecting the edges, but it's hit and miss, and I need to connect corner points.

Not sure what to try next.

[DennisA]

You should attach .fmz file to your post.

 

[-andrew-]

Thanks - Sure thing - attached.

Untitled4.fmz

[Andrew West]

I was able to do it by deselecting "lock plane through first point".  Your object is obviously not exactly planar to the world coordinates.  

[-andrew-]

9 minutes ago, Andrew West said:

I was able to do it by deselecting "lock plane through first point".  Your object is obviously not exactly planar to the world coordinates.  

Thanks Andrew - interesting, because I tried again, starting from a completely new file, working on the Z plane, with the same result of not being able to connect corner points, regardless of settings. Additionally I couldn't even connect/draw a line through corner points when starting on the 2D object before extrusion. I can tell you this with 100% certainty.

What other settings did you have active?

FWIW, just to test, I was able to successfully draw a circle and have it work as expected... (simple circle drawn from the inside corner point...)

Edited March 6, 2021 by -andrew-

[-andrew-]

Further investigation... I can extrude upward from the reference plane from here, but not cut downward into the shape.

Cannot figure out what's going on here...

[-andrew-]

Another example - completely from scratch - shaped drawn on the plane, inset, one extruded, one flat.

I'm unable to draw lines from point to point on the top surface (corners or edges) and can no longer reshape into the shape.

Any help appreciated... thanks

shapes.fmz

[ZTEK]

Try to increase the numerical accuracy to a minimum of 4 decimal places. In your files, you only have 2 (0.01"). I always work with 6 for Numerical Precision and 4 for Angular Precision.

Also, I recommend that you switch to Stick To Edges in the Snap Options and be careful when using Give Guide Snaps Priority. Also, consider using Snap to Endpoint and, in general, not use Snap to Segment, Snap to Perpendicular, or Snap to Intersection, only when necessary.

In both files, I derived the faces, projected them to the work plane, and extruded them with Reshape. Then I had no problem inserting segments at the vertices.

I hope it helps.

shapes copy.fmz

Untitled4 copy.fmz

[-andrew-]

15 hours ago, ZTEK said:

Try to increase the numerical accuracy to a minimum of 4 decimal places. In your files, you only have 2 (0.01"). I always work with 6 for Numerical Precision and 4 for Angular Precision.

Also, I recommend that you switch to Stick To Edges in the Snap Options and be careful when using Give Guide Snaps Priority. Also, consider using Snap to Endpoint and, in general, not use Snap to Segment, Snap to Perpendicular, or Snap to Intersection, only when necessary.

In both files, I derived the faces, projected them to the work plane, and extruded them with Reshape. Then I had no problem inserting segments at the vertices.

I hope it helps.

shapes copy.fmz

Untitled4 copy.fmz

Thanks - a few things:

1) I don't see "Stick To Edges" in Snap Options (is this on the palette?)

2) I also don't see "Snap To Endpoint"

3) I tried deriving the face and projecting; when attempting to project, I get this message: "Inappropriate entity selected for the Projection of Solid tool. An object should be selected."

 

[-andrew-]

Started a new doc completely from scratch with 5 places accuracy Numerical / 4 places accuracy angle,

Everything is planar. I'm not able to draw a line between two corner points regardless of what combinations of snapping/not snapping, inserting, etc. I try.

Let's say I'm doing something wrong... It shouldn't be this difficult.

I have lost a full day of productivity trying to do this.

Edited March 7, 2021 by -andrew-

[setz]

There are a lot of different ways of accomplishing the the same end results in FZ.  As you become more familiar with the program, you will find that if one tool is not giving you the desired result, there will almost always be multiple other options for achieving your goal.  

 

Option 1:  Draw a line between the two points with Insert option turned off and snapping to points turned on.  Select Imprint Tool and click on line segment then on object.  Reshape.

Option 2:  Select Insert Segment Tool.  Draw line segment snapping to points.  Reshape.

 

Snapping / Stick to Edges is not required, but it does make working faster and more efficient.  It is located in the Snaps Palette under the Palettes Menu.  If you select this option and then save your preferences it will be remembered for future projects.

Snapping to Endpoint was added in V9 and has similar functionality to Snap to Point used in conjunction w/ Stick to Edges.

[setz]

Option 3:  Draw a line snapping to points and extrude up (perpendicular to plane) to create a surface.  Use the Section Tool to first click on the object and then click on the surface (cutting plane).  Reshape.  Boole Union two pieces back together.

Option 4:  Use Vector line tool to draw a concurrent shape over the face you want to reshape.  Extrude up or down and Boole Difference this object from first.  Reshape depression/extension to desired position.

Edited March 8, 2021 by setz

[ZTEK]

Andrew,

Your objects are well-formed, although, in the following case, there are a couple of extra points.

I assume that it's impossible to insert segments into the faces you want because these objects are smooth and hole-punched geometry and because they are pretty complex with multiple sides, kind of smooth n-gons. That's not a problem, and I think it's somehow related to how formZ deals with this kind of smooths solid objects.

In both cases, if you try to insert segments into their flat four-sided faces, you will see that it is perfectly possible.

As Setz well says, there is always more than one way to do what you need or want in formZ, which is fantastic.

The following would be two possible solutions for the particular case of one of your objects. It is possible to do the same for the other using a similar technique.

Finally, forget about the Projection tool. Initially, I thought that the objects were not well constructed (strictly not flat). Also, I noticed that it converts smooth objects to faceted, which is a limitation I was unaware of if you are dealing with smooth geometry. I apologize for the misinformation and confusion.

Hope it helps... best.

 

Option 1

 

Option 2

Edited March 10, 2021 by ZTEK

[¢hris £und]

Of note,  the numerical accuracy and how it overrides snaps, has been an issue since v7.  I have reported it as a bug a couple of times (first a long time ago), but I think I was only able to make it clear as to what I meant fairly recently.  This wasn't an issue in 6.x and prior.

It drives me nuts.   I almost always drop it to something like 1/1024  or 1/2048.   with a number of decimal places set to 10.

Of course, these days I tend to work on projects that are no larger than a card table. and most often with objects that are smaller than a loaf of bread.  At these sizes, that damn NA really gets to be a nuisance! 

 

¢£