Vray

[SJD]

Hi all

does Vray have the same rendering capabilities within FormZ as it does as a stand alone application or within any other modelling software? I've seen some excellent renders using Vray within other modelling apps but I've yet to find one produced in FormZ that's as good. I'm just assuming that this is because FormZ's user base is relatively small compared to the likes of Sketch Up etc. (I'm not knocking FormZ btw, I'm a long time user and it's an outstanding modelling application 👍)

any feedback would be greatly appreciated

thanks

Steve

[SJD]

hope this is ok but here are a few interior images from the Chaos website to demonstrate what I mean, all modelled in 3ds max.

I appreciate that the quality of each image is down to the artistry of the individual user - I'm just trying to establish if it's possible to achieve this level within FormZ before I invest time putting it into my workflow

thanks

 

[Andrew West]

If you go to the Form.z for Vray forum you will see a post of Example Images that help to show the capabilities.  I personally use V-ray now after switching from Maxwell.  I found the quality of Maxwell to be a bit better but at a time cost that was unacceptable.  Now Maxwell has released a new version that is supposedly a lot faster.  It does require a stack of GPUs to run it efficiently though which adds significantly to the cost of upgrading.  There is also a new V-ray plugin for Z that should be out shortly and may include added features that were missing in the first release.  Or so I am told.  So for now I am sticking with V-ray to see where it goes.  BTW the speed is really fantastic for the quality that it can produce. 

[SJD]

thanks Adam, that's my question really - does the integrated Vray renderer have the same tools and functionality as it would in say, Sketch Up or 3ds max or is it a 'light' version so to speak? I'd like to know if it's capable of producing the quality of finished render shown here if it's used to it's full advantage

[Andrew West]

The short answer is yes, it has the same functionality.  That said there are some missing features that I would still like to see.  One thing they did do on this plugin is to try to optimize the settings to something baseline that would work for most users.  This helps simplify the learning curve for some.  Deviating from those settings is fairly easy but might give you some very unexpected results.  So my only suggestion would be to try to take baby steps one at a time when adjusting parameters.   One disappointment in this plugin is that it only uses .vrmt materials.  There are literally thousands of other outside materials that you can download for free that would be so very helpful. However, they are in .vsmt  or .mat or other formats that the current  build can not recognize.  There are also some materials that are disabled in the current build for some reason.  So, hopefully that will be resolved in the future.

[SJD]

thanks again, I'm happy to put in the hours if, ultimately, it's possible to yield the kind of results shown above. With regards to materials, I was hoping it was possible to set up textures in FZRZ as I would normally for faster renders and once the client is happy produce my final output in Vray - is this possible or do I have to redo textures and decals? 

[Andrew West]

You can certainly use regular form.z textures and materials.  Understand that Renderzone was a plugin that worked in the exact same manner way back when it was first introduced.  With V-ray you will have a shaded tab, a renderzone tab, and now a V-ray tab all in your material editor.  You just set up your material as always and then go to the vray tab and set the new parameters for that.  Usually just adjusting the glossiness of a material is all that is necessary.  Using outside materials from other sources is just nice to save time for complex materials.    There are just so many already created online.  V-ray also comes with a  lot of baseline materials when installed but I have found them to be of limited use.

As for setting up in RZ for faster renders you will actually find that V-ray is faster to do test renders.  I go straight from shaded view to V-ray for speed.  If you have a good graphics card that really helps.  I have not hit the RZ render button in years now and I don't miss it a bit. 

[Andrew West]

Just to clarify my statement above.  V-ray reads the information from the RZ tab so that you only need to set up your materials once.

[SJD]

thanks Andrew, that's a pleasant surprise that Vray is actually faster - I definitely need to look into now. That said, I've found RenderZone to be incredibly capable over the years with a good blend of quality vs speed and have produced some very nice renders with it - like most things it just takes a bit of time to learn the finer points to get the best out of it

Edited November 14, 2019 by SJD

[Justin Montoya]

Several things...

I am able to use older VRAY .VISMAT texture files in VRay for FormZ, however, once you load them in the material editor, you should resave them as the newer .VRMAT format.  This is the new format for all applications, not just FormZ.  This may not have worked initially, but has been working in the latest VRay for FormZ releases for me.

You cannot use Decals with VRay or any other rendering other than RZ.  Just like they don't show up in Shaded mode, they will not show up in VRay.  They are only used in RenderZone.  You'll have to create a surface slightly offset the object to replicate this feature.  I actually prefer this method since you can use Shaded view to see it and modify it easier.

Rendering old RZ based projects does work well, as lights and materials are all converted.  You'll want to optimize them for Vray though to get the best results.  Still it's a big time saver on existing projects.

There's been quite a few impressive VRay for FormZ renderings shared in the VRay forum. - 

IMHO, The rendering level is just as nice as any of the other programs, but the designs are typically simpler and more realistic than the over the top designs you see from MAX users who spend weeks and months on a single shot.  We don't seem to have that level of artistic user base... yet.  The real difference is the way FormZ handles outside models.  Where MAX users have HUGE catalogs of parts and decorations to use, we have to build most of ours from scratch.  Sure we can import some models, but they can cause major issues as well.  Hopefully this will improve soon.

Our plugin is being updated to the newest VRAY NEXT soon.  That should get us caught up to all of the functionality of the other VRay integrations. 

You should give VRay a try if you have a nice powerful workstation.  If you do not, you will likely still have issues with the speed of rendering.  I'd recommend a PC with atleast 16 cores/32t and as many NVIDIA GTX or RTX GPUs with atleast 8gb VRAM, as you can afford.  

Cheers!

[SJD]

thanks Justin

I think I'll definitely be giving Vray a go