Wal054 Posted July 9 Share Posted July 9 I am modelling in Form Z 10 and have been tinkering with Form Z for a while. I am at the stage where I now need to generate 2D drawings for Council approval. The way I see it I have 2 options. Ie generate 2D views in Draft Layout or export the 3D model direct to a CAD package (Bricscad in my case) and generate 2D views in Bricscad. The model will continue to be tweaked after the initial 2D views are generated. Which of the above methods are Form Z users finding more efficient? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bbuxton Posted July 10 Share Posted July 10 If you are still making changes to the model use draft layout as it can update to reflect those changes. However draft layout has a lot of rough edges, so I only ever use it for draft concepts where revisions are still expected. Toward the end of a project almost anything else is prefered, I have an old 2018 license of Vectorworks that I use for my final drawings for architecture or contruction drawings. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wal054 Posted July 10 Author Share Posted July 10 Thanks for your reply. Do you then export to VW when all changes have finished. I find however, that changes are continually being made - even at construction stage. How do you handle that? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bbuxton Posted July 10 Share Posted July 10 (edited) Yes ihat is difficult. I am not at all good with Vectorworks so normally I get late changes done in Draft Layout and just submit those as revision documents. As long as the project is organised it is ok. Also a lot depends on who you are working with. Many projects are locked once approved and if there is a problem that requires a revision, then it is filed as such. Edited July 10 by bbuxton Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wal054 Posted July 10 Author Share Posted July 10 Ok thanks. So looks like there is no simple solution - except maybe exporting the model in DWG format and referencing that into a CAD package. I also have VW 2022 but refuse to go with the subscription service. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bbuxton Posted July 10 Share Posted July 10 Yes subscriptions are bad news, especially for freelance work. Justin Montoya 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thommo Posted July 11 Share Posted July 11 Hi Wal054, My advice is to stick with one program until there are no more changes (???? ....... if that exists) Form Z is a fantastic modeling too but some what limited for "drawing". I used Vectorworks for many years as a drawing tool (and Form Z as a modeling tool). Eventually I didn't renew my VW subscription because I didn't use it enough to warrant the expense. Now I just stick with Form Z and put up with the drawing short comings. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CJTFORM-Z Posted July 11 Share Posted July 11 This is an interesting topic regarding Form.Z Layout for architectural works, mainly because I've not seen many architectural projects by users discussing this on this forum. I do see people noting issues with Form.Z Layout on this forum, but not too sure what exactly they are, minor or major gripes. I guess it’s similar to SketchUP Layout, I use SU now & then to supplement my Architectural CAD software programme, DataCAD, when needed, but mainly at the Design/planning approval stage. SU & Layout is just too slow for me to take this to the Construction stage so typically stick with DataCAD. I stopped upgrading with SU when they dropped the perpetual licence, hence my interest in Form.Z. A long time ago I thought SU was the answer to create a 3D model of a project & then extract all the necessary plans, sections & elevations etc, but SU Layout was just too slow for me. Some SU users though do stick with SU from design right through to the construction stage, but I don't think SU was really meant for that type of work & perhaps this is the same with Form.Z ! A parametric architectural CAD programme may be a better direction after using a 3D modelling programme such as Form.Z. I realise the pricing can be eye watering even with the ransomware subscription direction many seem to adopt these days, but I did find one that seems very capable with a perpetual licence called ArchLine-Xp, I just need to find the time to get up to speed with it for real projects, easier said than done. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hugo Posted July 11 Share Posted July 11 I discussed my workflow some years ago on this forum. My workflow is to work ONLY in FormZ 3D modeller. Make a screenshot on 300 dpi and use it in Affinity Publisher to create astonishing output. This workflow is highly controllable, because skipping 1 translation, namely FormZ Layout. In my opinion Layout is not working at all. Hopefully ADS will integrate PowerCadd in the near future to work well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wal054 Posted July 11 Author Share Posted July 11 2 hours ago, Hugo said: I discussed my workflow some years ago on this forum. My workflow is to work ONLY in FormZ 3D modeller. Make a screenshot on 300 dpi and use it in Affinity Publisher to create astonishing output. This workflow is highly controllable, because skipping 1 translation, namely FormZ Layout. In my opinion Layout is not working at all. Hopefully ADS will integrate PowerCadd in the near future to work well. Hi Hugo. Sounds interesting. How do you dimension using Affinity Publisher. Do you have any sample drawings that you are prepared to share? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hugo Posted July 11 Share Posted July 11 Dimensions are placed in the 3D modeller on a dimension layer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wal054 Posted July 11 Author Share Posted July 11 Ok. So when you import the screen shot into Affinity Publisher, how do you scale the image so that it is correct to scale (I know that people using drawings shouldn't scale - but they do). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CJTFORM-Z Posted July 12 Share Posted July 12 3 hours ago, Hugo said: I discussed my workflow some years ago on this forum. My workflow is to work ONLY in FormZ 3D modeller. Make a screenshot on 300 dpi and use it in Affinity Publisher to create astonishing output. This workflow is highly controllable, because skipping 1 translation, namely FormZ Layout. In my opinion Layout is not working at all. Hopefully ADS will integrate PowerCadd in the near future to work well. I used Serif-Page-Plus from x2 to X9, but not for any type of architectural works, well proper architectural plans per-se. When Affinity was introduced, Designer first & then publisher, I struggled to use this programmes, as they didn't seem very intuitive to me compared to the previous the Page-plus versions. I'm intrigued to why FZ Layout isn't working for you, as the YOUTUBE video, ver 8.5, suggests its very workable. I thought FZ-HQ around version 9.0 were going to put out a new Layout tutorial video, but that never happened as far as I can see, therefore, did Layout ver 8.5 dramatically change in ver 9.0/10.0 ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hugo Posted July 12 Share Posted July 12 7 hours ago, Wal054 said: Ok. So when you import the screen shot into Affinity Publisher, how do you scale the image so that it is correct to scale (I know that people using drawings shouldn't scale - but they do). In the 3D modeller create a screen size first, lets say 290x145 mm and 300 dpi, create a view and save, (or a scene). Make your screen images and save them in a folder. In Aff Pub create your layout with placeholders 290x145 mm. Place your images. Aff Pub is a very easy to use and ROCK SOLID program with perfect output. After update the 3D model recreate the same image and save it with the same name in that Aff Pub folder. Aff Pub will update perfectly. Why i do not use the FMZ layout? Because it is NOT rock solid at all. Poor graphics, print output was not possible (don’t know if it is fixed in latest version) because of graphic deformation etc… The FMZ layout was a marketing tool not working well with poor graphics, and not WYSIWG! Result: you can’t trust it (dimensions lost after printing for example…) and therefore not usable to communicate with clients. As i said in other discussions some time ago: The 3D modeller has all bells and whistles, different render solutions and simple to use. Because staying in the 3D modeller, with dimensions and all, you keep control over the model with the dimension and you can skip a step in the workflow. That step (“updating automatically”) was never solid connected to the 3D modeller. So skip every risk making mistakes!! Skip Layout. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CJTFORM-Z Posted July 12 Share Posted July 12 47 minutes ago, Hugo said: In the 3D modeller create a screen size first, lets say 290x145 mm and 300 dpi, create a view and save, (or a scene). Make your screen images and save them in a folder. In Aff Pub create your layout with placeholders 290x145 mm. Place your images. Aff Pub is a very easy to use and ROCK SOLID program with perfect output. After update the 3D model recreate the same image and save it with the same name in that Aff Pub folder. Aff Pub will update perfectly. Why i do not use the FMZ layout? Because it is NOT rock solid at all. Poor graphics, print output was not possible (don’t know if it is fixed in latest version) because of graphic deformation etc… The FMZ layout was a marketing tool not working well with poor graphics, and not WYSIWG! Result: you can’t trust it (dimensions lost after printing for example…) and therefore not usable to communicate with clients. As i said in other discussions some time ago: The 3D modeller has all bells and whistles, different render solutions and simple to use. Because staying in the 3D modeller, with dimensions and all, you keep control over the model with the dimension and you can skip a step in the workflow. That step (“updating automatically”) was never solid connected to the 3D modeller. So skip every risk making mistakes!! Skip Layout. Hi Hugo, Thanks for your insight on FZ Layout & Affinity Publisher, it's most appreciated. I would definitely need FZ Layout to be working as intended if I were to add FZ to my architectural armoury of programmes & the picture you paint is a little disappointing. So for balance, it would be good to hear from others on this if the latest version has been improved & works as intended & to see any architectural users shared works with FZ Layout. As for Affinity Publisher, can you tell me why you chose a Publisher type programme over a typical CAD programme ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wal054 Posted July 12 Author Share Posted July 12 1 hour ago, Hugo said: In the 3D modeller create a screen size first, lets say 290x145 mm and 300 dpi, create a view and save, (or a scene). Make your screen images and save them in a folder. In Aff Pub create your layout with placeholders 290x145 mm. Place your images. Aff Pub is a very easy to use and ROCK SOLID program with perfect output. After update the 3D model recreate the same image and save it with the same name in that Aff Pub folder. Aff Pub will update perfectly. Why i do not use the FMZ layout? Because it is NOT rock solid at all. Poor graphics, print output was not possible (don’t know if it is fixed in latest version) because of graphic deformation etc… The FMZ layout was a marketing tool not working well with poor graphics, and not WYSIWG! Result: you can’t trust it (dimensions lost after printing for example…) and therefore not usable to communicate with clients. As i said in other discussions some time ago: The 3D modeller has all bells and whistles, different render solutions and simple to use. Because staying in the 3D modeller, with dimensions and all, you keep control over the model with the dimension and you can skip a step in the workflow. That step (“updating automatically”) was never solid connected to the 3D modeller. So skip every risk making mistakes!! Skip Layout. Hi Hugo I tried your method & all works ok. Questions that I have are: 1. How do I get a higher resolution screen shot. I save my screenshots at 600 dpi. 2. What screenshot software do you use? I use Faststone Capture. 3. Do you use a 4k or higher monitor. I have a 1920 x 180 monitor? 4. What do you do with large buildings that do not fit on the display area of the monitor (at a large enough scale). I appreciate your input very much. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hugo Posted July 12 Share Posted July 12 Aff Pub? Because of reason I just told in previous post. And because i believe 3D modelling is the way to go per definition. 2d output can be done in many ways. It’s just a way of communication. Anyway… Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hugo Posted July 12 Share Posted July 12 Wal054, see file A1 format. I created quickly an example in Aff Pub. Maybe this helps. A1 format.pdf Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wal054 Posted July 12 Author Share Posted July 12 (edited) Hugo Ok. So you didn't use an external screen capture software. You used Display - Image Options. Then Export Image. Thanks Edited July 12 by Wal054 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hugo Posted July 12 Share Posted July 12 yep Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wal054 Posted July 12 Author Share Posted July 12 Just now, Hugo said: yep Great. Thanks for your help Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hugo Posted July 12 Share Posted July 12 3 hours ago, CJTFORM-Z said: As for Affinity Publisher, can you tell me why you chose a Publisher type programme over a typical CAD programme ! oeps... and a little more. In my opinion FMZ 3D modeller is wonderful with maximum controle over the 3D model and Aff Pub for the best graphic output and easy of use. Aff Pub is created for layout purpose on the most professional level. Therefore, the best program for 3D (FormZ) in combination with best program for Layout Affinity Publisher. (and, Aff Pub is cheap! without subscription) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hugo Posted July 12 Share Posted July 12 Hopefully PowerCADD will add significant solutions for the lack we discussed today and in the past. ADS deserves to have a better 2D program + layout tool in house. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hugo Posted July 12 Share Posted July 12 Here an example with some changes in FMZ modeller and in Aff Pub, placeholders reordered with new images. A1 format_2.pdf Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wal054 Posted July 12 Author Share Posted July 12 Hi Hugo Just wondering why you are using Affinity Publisher rather than Affinity Designer? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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