jonmoore Posted June 27, 2015 Share Posted June 27, 2015 Great to see that AutoDesSys is recruiting for an interface design specialist, especially in view of the recent open letter regarding UI gripes and such like. http://www.formz.com/home/jobs.html I think ADS could benefit from taking a modal UI design approach (as was already suggested in the open letter thread) and IMHO none have excelled more in this approach to interface design (specifically with 3d packages) than Luxology with Modo. Forgot any personal preferences regarding dark interface design or small typography (especially on the second video, captured on a 32" monitor) and concentrate on the overall fluidity of working with Modo as shown in these videos. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qjg8tuxrUpQ And how Modo's open SDK has enabled a member of the Modo community to create this wonderfully minimal modelling toolkit approach (my person fave way of modelling in Modo). https://vimeo.com/101115784 Another aspect of the UI design that was highlighted in the open letter thread was the importance of developing a custom interface 'chrome'. This is why the likes of Adobe, Autodesk, Maxon and Luxology are able to create a unified UI experience across both Windows and OS X. And it also enables the best of these companies (such as Adobe & Luxology) to create interface designs that scale gracefully from 13" laptop's to 27" and above 4K monitors. From a personal perspective I'd like to see ADS concentrate on workflow and user experience as they start developing v9. FormZ already has a bulging kit of tools so adding yet more to this armoury without first getting the existing tools to operate more fluidly and predictably would seem a lesser priority to me. Apologies if any of this seems repetitious from the previous tread but it seemed worthwhile raising this point again seeing as AutoDesSys are actively seeking a UI design specialist. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redrngr Posted June 28, 2015 Share Posted June 28, 2015 Thank for post Jon Moore as I like the video on Customization of Interface in Modo and I agree it is Significant and great to see that AutoDesSys is recruiting for an interface design specialist. Dan S. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonmoore Posted June 28, 2015 Author Share Posted June 28, 2015 Thank for post Jon Moore as I like the video on Customization of Interface in Modo and I agree it is Significant and great to see that AutoDesSys is recruiting for an interface design specialist. Dan S. Glad you though it relevant. I wouldn't expect AutoDesSys to slavishly copy Modo's way of doing things but the principles of Modo'a UI conventions are a great place to start. The most recent Maya release (2016) has taken huge influence from Modo to universal acclaim. It's amazing how Maya has gone from one of the worse UI experiences to one of the best over the last 3 releases. Autodesk may be considered a leviathan but they realised they needed to rebuild their architecture from the ground up (no small task) to maintain relevance. A strange comparison to make maybe when we're talking about little old AutoDesSys but I think there are lots of parallels between the two.pieces of software (especially from a historic context). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redrngr Posted June 28, 2015 Share Posted June 28, 2015 Well thanks Jon and now I will need to look at Maya's 2016 huge influence of Modo's Interface. Dan S. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonmoore Posted June 28, 2015 Author Share Posted June 28, 2015 Well thanks Jon and now I will need to look at Maya's 2016 huge influence of Modo's Interface. Dan S. Here you go (all the new modelling focused enhancements for the 2016 version): It's a long video but worth every second... I honestly think Maya has taken Modo's crown as the most fluid modeling environment. And Viewport 2.0 - eye blastingly gorgeous! FormZ is obviously a CAD application rather than a Poly/SubD focussed one, but it's centred around direct modeling techniques (especially since v7) so I think it could definitely take a few UX cues from Maya and Modo as it looks to enhance it's UI in upcoming versions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bo Atkinson Posted June 29, 2015 Share Posted June 29, 2015 With all due respect for the well thought out concepts added, may i question the predicted benefits, just a little? Regardless of whether or not we would prefer the term "View Port" or "Multiview" or the older term "Frames".... What really is the advantage within the Modo ports? FormZ has for many years allowed use of shortcuts after clicking any frame (port) to enlarge just that one frame alone. THere has also been the feature of openning up additional windows on top, but i never used that feature in my 20 years of formZ. Granted i use two hands and prefer two handed work flows and perhaps Modo has certain things down to one finger-- Yet, truly, geometry is infinite and can easily overwhelm one finger control of modeling. Whereas, for my own preference, i prefer differentiating control powers with two hands, ten digits on each. (I'm struggling to improve each digit Maya certainly does wonders with rounding edges, even non-uniform loop shapes. So it seems in the video. The symmetry abilities, softening particular edge renderings and the UV looked great... However, the interface looked foreign enough to remind me i don't like spending my time interpreting UI contents during my work flow... In that i want to focus on my own geometry in my mind, interfacing my physical life building experiences, which is clearly always a challenge regardless of any existing UI out there. I would rather treasure interfacing real life through the a sort of UI underlay, honestly. My main point being that concerning the OS Interface subject, as addressed by users on this forum- OS issues do span other challenges as well, (some of which will compete for representation in development requests). Within that set, as a Mac user, i can say that OSX in itself presents challenges through it's OS upgrades-- As something i suffer from which concerns me far more than further adjustments with Multi View or interface stylization. I would expect free lancers want to get more years out of their aging hardware and like myself are inclined to find issues with any upgrades. OS platforms seem to be challenged with too many diverse networking, design and entertainment complications of millions of diverse users everywhere, even with foreign languages as well as characters! I offer my gratitude for all the work which will be done. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonmoore Posted June 29, 2015 Author Share Posted June 29, 2015 With all due respect for the well thought out concepts added, may i question the predicted benefits, just a little? Regardless of whether or not we would prefer the term "View Port" or "Multiview" or the older term "Frames".... What really is the advantage within the Modo ports? FormZ has for many years allowed use of shortcuts after clicking any frame (port) to enlarge just that one frame alone. THere has also been the feature of openning up additional windows on top, but i never used that feature in my 20 years of formZ. Granted i use two hands and prefer two handed work flows and perhaps Modo has certain things down to one finger-- Yet, truly, geometry is infinite and can easily overwhelm one finger control of modeling. Whereas, for my own preference, i prefer differentiating control powers with two hands, ten digits on each. (I'm struggling to improve each digit Maya certainly does wonders with rounding edges, even non-uniform loop shapes. So it seems in the video. The symmetry abilities, softening particular edge renderings and the UV looked great... However, the interface looked foreign enough to remind me i don't like spending my time interpreting UI contents during my work flow... In that i want to focus on my own geometry in my mind, interfacing my physical life building experiences, which is clearly always a challenge regardless of any existing UI out there. I would rather treasure interfacing real life through the a sort of UI underlay, honestly. My main point being that concerning the OS Interface subject, as addressed by users on this forum- OS issues do span other challenges as well, (some of which will compete for representation in development requests). Within that set, as a Mac user, i can say that OSX in itself presents challenges through it's OS upgrades-- As something i suffer from which concerns me far more than further adjustments with Multi View or interface stylization. I would expect free lancers want to get more years out of their aging hardware and like myself are inclined to find issues with any upgrades. OS platforms seem to be challenged with too many diverse networking, design and entertainment complications of millions of diverse users everywhere, even with foreign languages as well as characters! I offer my gratitude for all the work which will be done. You raise some good points Bo, but I think you might be focusing a tad too much on the styling of the Modo & Maya interface designs. The uniting factor with both is the fluidity of modelling operations, which is essential for direct modeling applications. They both make it really easy to access the appropriate information for any particular modeling tool at point of need and then swiftly get out of the way. Comparing the manipulation of edge loops (on SubD objects) in Maya/Modo with FormZ is a prime example. Before v7, FormZ was very menu/pallette driven, much like the majority of other CAD applications but first with Bonzai and then FormZ v7, it become far more friendly for direct modeling user interactions. The problem at the moment is that that FormZ is often caught between 'pillar & post' with direct modeling operations, so the overall user experience feels sluggish. Interaction with essential pallette items such as the object manager is incredibly sluggish too (e.g. there's a slight delay to every click, when selecting an item it only becomes highlighted on mouse release). Maya used to be a horrendous UX; the most simple actions were buried beneath a ton hidden menu options so this was one of the reasons I highlighted the improvements with Maya. If an application as complex as Maya can manage to create a fluid user experience, I'm sure AutoDesSys can do the same with FormZ. The fact that their recruiting for a UX/UI specialist is IMHO a very good sign that they intend to make big changes in this area. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bo Atkinson Posted June 29, 2015 Share Posted June 29, 2015 Jon, I hope my words provide a good exchange of ideas. Thanks for your helpful clarification about fluidity of both Modo and Maya. I appreciate that point but have developed differing sorts of fluid streams in my own work flow. Such that shortcuts can actually provide all the fluidity i need. However, indeed many shortcut options are still missing but could accomplish much the same fluidity, if one truly commits to set up comprehensive shortcut keys. I respect what might be wishes to have all the tool options pop right up, where the cursor rests. My own eye is not anticipating text data there. My eyes are more often focused on the design visibility. Perhaps your fluidity suggestion suggests even more option settings, like the resolution of the rounding loops. I can agree that formZ has long been restrictive with complex roundings. In this regard "fluidity" delves into countless past requests for more improvements of existing tool functions. If you would allow one to differ in workflows, i will tell you that i never liked the popup prompts or indicators all over the OS and instead use quick track ball maneuvering to navigate (and to avoid popups). I developed fast cursor maneuvers for option palette editing. Old fashioned, i know it is. So that i will respect the consensus which might favor popups for this current era. At my age i just have to say that much of this feels like stylization, or trainer wheels. While the inner designer within oneself might prefer the style of internal, mind invocations, to design with, including edits... I respect that some people might see popups within their minds eye, i do not. Instead i see sort of flashes of insights without text or numeral characters. Rather i see design concepts manifesting. ( "Manifesting" is a term used in consciousness studies). I have a feeling that PCs will ultimately interface human minds more in this fashion, as some preliminary experiments in computer interfacing of human minds are published (by competing researchers and explorers). Some crude devices are also sold, (far from fully handling a 3d cursor task). Herewith i feel a need for caution, a need for reservation on styles of fluidity and instead hope for greater focus on the tool functions specifically, (like those option settings and many outstanding user requests). By the time we get used to popular interface aspects, the next generation of aspects is brought on board. BTW, Adobe still uses a a 20 yr old interface shelled in current OS (Dreamweaver). I never liked that interface but just ended up being stuck with it, in part due to server deals and restrictions- Just one more way to say that one sort of shoe can rarely fit all needs. I hope others will add their insights as countless posts are shared too quickly and deserve to relate more to OS interface, of personal computers. The forum is a great resource to use while it is here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonmoore Posted June 29, 2015 Author Share Posted June 29, 2015 I hope others will add their insights as countless posts are shared too quickly and deserve to relate more to OS interface, of personal computers. The forum is a great resource to use while it is here. Agreed entirely Bo. The thing that I've always enjoyed about the FormZ community is the manner in which views and ideas are shared without ego's getting in the way. I'm a mac user too and became fatigued by the number keyboard shortcuts I needed to remember, so I've now created a bunch of workflow specific pop-up pallets using Keyboard Maestro ( http://www.keyboardmaestro.com/main/). This way my aging brain only has to remember a single keybinding to access a whole bunch of application agnostic/workflow specific commands. Helps me no end as I'm constantly jumping between creative applications. Similar to working with the pie menu/marking menu system in Maya/Modo but in an application agnostic way. I'm also a fan of trackballs and would find it hard to work without my Kesington - no more RSI and far flung menus are a mere flick away. But there's still room for a Space Navigator, Wacom and a Magic Mouse Pad on my desk too (even experimented with a Leap Motion at one point) - the whole HCI thing is really important to me so that's probably why I'm so focussed on things being as fluid and friction free as possible. The closer my software interactions gets to working with with clay/paint the better. To your point regarding the existing toolset and outstanding user requests, I couldn't agree more. As I mentioned earlier I see no point in adding yet more tools whilst the existing tools function in a less than optimal manner. But I'm also of the belief that UX/UI improvements will enhance those existing tools to help answer those outstanding user requests. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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