¢hris £und Posted April 2, 2022 Share Posted April 2, 2022 One thing to consider, Python 2.x is no longer in development, and is not optimized for the M1. Hopefully this issue is compelling enough for ADS to update their use of python to 3.x. Which, in my opinion, they should have done in the first place. Dan, I suspect it a little early to predict the death of Mac development by ADS. With the Advent of the M1, Apples market share has gone up. Though, quit possibly not in this niche of the already niche market. ¢£ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DanM Posted April 4, 2022 Share Posted April 4, 2022 Hi Chris It's not a prediction it's a fact that is happening right now. If a SW developer does not currently supports a platform and wont not say when they will come with a compatible version, that means they no long de-facto support this platform. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tech Posted April 4, 2022 Share Posted April 4, 2022 On 4/2/2022 at 6:00 AM, DanM said: It makes me sad to read this and other threads here. But I think we (MacOS users) must say the truth to ourselves, ADS dropped the support to MacOS they just not admitting it. My advice to all of you, move on. If you can't wait, change to hardware or change the software, whatever is less painful, and never look back. In the end of the day we need this tools to work for us, not the other way around. This is simply not true. We are as committed to macOS as we have ever been. Unfortunately the recent macOS 12.3 update disturbed apps that use Python 2 (macOS 12.2 and lower do not have an issue). While form•Z is not dependent on Python (it is a “weak” dependency) macOS 12.3 responds that Python 2 is available to the app, even when it is not installed. This was an unexpected issue Apple introduced with this update and why installing the latest version of Python 2.7 fixes the issue. form•Z 10 already uses Python 3. We are currently testing a migration of Python 3 back to v9 so that we can improve compatibility with macOS 12.3 sooner. We are actively working on native support for Apple Silicon (M1) for form•Z 10. While a lot of this work has ben completed, some third party components do not yet support Apple Silicon which limits our ability to release a native M1 version. This should all come together the coming months! Mike_Concentric, ktejlgaard, Des and 6 others 8 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hugo Posted April 4, 2022 Share Posted April 4, 2022 I like the Tech respond, because it shows that so many users who are always 'know better' are probably wrong... Thank you Tech for your communication update on this forum. 👍 David Lemelin, Justin Montoya, Des and 2 others 3 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
santa Posted April 5, 2022 Share Posted April 5, 2022 Form Z 10? Do tell! Des, Mike_Concentric and Martin Malinski 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DanM Posted April 5, 2022 Share Posted April 5, 2022 I hope I'm wrong. In any case I didn't mean that ADS intentionally dropped support for MacOS. Mike_Concentric 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Des Posted April 5, 2022 Share Posted April 5, 2022 16 hours ago, Tech said: This is simply not true. We are as committed to macOS as we have ever been. Unfortunately the recent macOS 12.3 update disturbed apps that use Python 2 (macOS 12.2 and lower do not have an issue). While form•Z is not dependent on Python (it is a “weak” dependency) macOS 12.3 responds that Python 2 is available to the app, even when it is not installed. This was an unexpected issue Apple introduced with this update and why installing the latest version of Python 2.7 fixes the issue. form•Z 10 already uses Python 3. We are currently testing a migration of Python 3 back to v9 so that we can improve compatibility with macOS 12.3 sooner. We are actively working on native support for Apple Silicon (M1) for form•Z 10. While a lot of this work has ben completed, some third party components do not yet support Apple Silicon which limits our ability to release a native M1 version. This should all come together the coming months! This is such an interesting post. Little titbits like this are very important to prevent speculation and makes me happy. It's nice to see ADS are hard at work. Des Mike_Concentric and Martin Malinski 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snow Posted April 5, 2022 Share Posted April 5, 2022 3 hours ago, Des said: This is such an interesting post. Little titbits like this are very important to prevent speculation and makes me happy. It's nice to see ADS are hard at work. Des I, too, am happy to see this. Is it wrong to want more of this? I'd like to see ADS post updates once a week or bi weekly discussing what they are actively working on. I don't understand the secrecy. This isn't a Marvel movie. AHDD Designer and Mike_Concentric 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AHDD Designer Posted April 5, 2022 Share Posted April 5, 2022 20 hours ago, Tech said: This is simply not true. We are as committed to macOS as we have ever been. Unfortunately the recent macOS 12.3 update disturbed apps that use Python 2 (macOS 12.2 and lower do not have an issue). While form•Z is not dependent on Python (it is a “weak” dependency) macOS 12.3 responds that Python 2 is available to the app, even when it is not installed. This was an unexpected issue Apple introduced with this update and why installing the latest version of Python 2.7 fixes the issue. form•Z 10 already uses Python 3. We are currently testing a migration of Python 3 back to v9 so that we can improve compatibility with macOS 12.3 sooner. We are actively working on native support for Apple Silicon (M1) for form•Z 10. While a lot of this work has ben completed, some third party components do not yet support Apple Silicon which limits our ability to release a native M1 version. This should all come together the coming months! This is very satisfying and great to read! Thank you very much for this motivating message. Mike_Concentric 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
¢hris £und Posted April 5, 2022 Share Posted April 5, 2022 I suppose it is a damned if you do, damned if you don't type of a situation. On the secrecy side, we know how it affects us. However, development doesn't always go as planned. A problem isn't as simple as initially thought. Maybe even unsolvable for the current time being. The environment for a perceived tool or method changes. Other issues and or opportunities arise in the mean time, pushing or halting what was discussed or promised. Ostensibly, this is the case with Python integration. I don't like it, but that doesn't mean the company is going under. They do, just like any other company, have to pick and choose where applied resources will be of the best benefit. Quite frankly, if one of these scenarios (or others,) speculation is going to happen any way. My concern is, if the gloomers and doomers get loud enough, their POV becomes a self fulfilled prophecy. But, hey, if it comes to pass. They can sure feel good about themselves for being right. So smart and insightful to predict a downfall they essentially promote. As far as I am concerned, thinking based on fear, hopes and or frustration isn't rational. Of course, I am not saying that we shouldn't express our frustrations, certainly we should. Just know where to do it and don't let a wave become a tsunami. That wave, despite its size, is aimed at us just as it is aimed at ADS. Dan M. Please consider something. We know that PowerCADD is somehow going to be associated with formZ. Whether it is fully integrated, or a side car type relationship, we do not know. PowerCADD ,historically, was strictly Mac. Does it make sense to take on the burden just to dump its assets? PowerCADD doesn't have any PC assets. If ADS were to have the intent to dump the Macintosh, they would probably have chosen to align with a PC based CAD company instead. And I seriously doubt they are going to dump the PC. (I wouldn't expect PowerCADD to be part of fZ10. Despite that, I hope it is.) My 3.5 cents worth. 3.5¢ £und vva and Des 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
santa Posted April 5, 2022 Share Posted April 5, 2022 3 hours ago, ¢hris £und said: My concern is, if the gloomers and doomers get loud enough, their POV becomes a self fulfilled prophecy. Hear, hear! There is nothing to fear like fear itself! ADS must be more transparent to maintain user confidence. snow 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Des Posted April 6, 2022 Share Posted April 6, 2022 8 hours ago, santa said: Hear, hear! There is nothing to fear like fear itself! ADS must be more transparent to maintain user confidence. I approve this message 😀 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3dworks Posted April 6, 2022 Share Posted April 6, 2022 On 4/4/2022 at 7:39 PM, Tech said: This is simply not true. We are as committed to macOS as we have ever been. Unfortunately the recent macOS 12.3 update disturbed apps that use Python 2 (macOS 12.2 and lower do not have an issue). While form•Z is not dependent on Python (it is a “weak” dependency) macOS 12.3 responds that Python 2 is available to the app, even when it is not installed. This was an unexpected issue Apple introduced with this update and why installing the latest version of Python 2.7 fixes the issue. form•Z 10 already uses Python 3. We are currently testing a migration of Python 3 back to v9 so that we can improve compatibility with macOS 12.3 sooner. We are actively working on native support for Apple Silicon (M1) for form•Z 10. While a lot of this work has ben completed, some third party components do not yet support Apple Silicon which limits our ability to release a native M1 version. This should all come together the coming months! this is definitely great news! nevertheless, hopefully there will be a sort of hotfix for older versions soon - if this can be done. Mike_Concentric 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AsOne Posted April 6, 2022 Share Posted April 6, 2022 (edited) Great to hear there is work on a M1 native version! Technically ADS did release an update on PowerCADD coming this summer, which is only on Mac...so that hints at a new M1 version and one with new 2D drafting features. I would love to see scheduled updates and/or upgrades. Edited April 6, 2022 by AsOne Mike_Concentric 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smarttec Posted April 7, 2022 Share Posted April 7, 2022 16 hours ago, 3dworks said: this is definitely great news! nevertheless, hopefully there will be a sort of hotfix for older versions soon - if this can be done. No - be realistic. Software is constantly being changed to fit with new OS's and hardware improvements. No company no matter how large can stay and support 'old software' it is a recipe for disaster! Move on... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZTEK Posted April 7, 2022 Share Posted April 7, 2022 formZ 10 Python 3.0 M1 support PowerCADD integration All good! Thanks for the news ZTech! Mike_Concentric 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
santa Posted April 7, 2022 Share Posted April 7, 2022 1 hour ago, ZTEK said: formZ 10 Python 3.0 M1 support PowerCADD integration All good! Thanks for the news ZTech! Mike_Concentric 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Lemelin Posted April 19, 2022 Share Posted April 19, 2022 Kinda sad that every technical issue devolves into Mac vs PC tribal war. Grow up and realize that everyone has their preferences for a reason. I have a custom-built Threadripper PC which cost me 6.5 thousand a couple of years ago... I'm selling it as soon as I can find someone who wants the headache of dealing with a botched windows interface. It's not the hardware, it's the OS. It's garbage. If I wanted to spend my days tinkering with obscure obsolete control panels, overclocking, and buggy software updates I'd have become an IT tech. I'm a designer, the machine needs to get the hell out of my way and let me create. As for FromZ... guys, I love your product, but I've been testing other waters and ADS needs to sink some real R&D $$$ into catching up. There's lots of good ideas, but I think you need a fresh infusion of liquidity and programing. I wish you the best. At this point I'm just hoping to get FZ to boot so I can salvage my legacy work of the last 6 years. 3dworks 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
santa Posted April 20, 2022 Share Posted April 20, 2022 10 hours ago, David Lemelin said: It's not the hardware, it's the OS. It's garbage. Which Threadripper are you running? I am asking, because it may be responsible for some of your woes. Technically, Windows is restricted to 64 cores per processor, BUT the problem is that it sees threads as cores. Because of this anything over 32 cores (64 threads) will give you grief. I have been running dual Xeon workstations for a number of years now, with plenty of RAM, and have never run into anything similar to what you describe. NOTE that I am not a Microsoft evangelist, and am not writing this in order to promote Windows. Yes, it does have issues, but so do the offerings from Apple or Linux! In the end it does come down to personal preference I guess! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Justin Montoya Posted April 20, 2022 Share Posted April 20, 2022 On 4/19/2022 at 11:11 AM, David Lemelin said: Kinda sad that every technical issue devolves into Mac vs PC tribal war. Grow up and realize that everyone has their preferences for a reason. I have a custom-built Threadripper PC which cost me 6.5 thousand a couple of years ago... I'm selling it as soon as I can find someone who wants the headache of dealing with a botched windows interface. It's not the hardware, it's the OS. It's garbage. If I wanted to spend my days tinkering with obscure obsolete control panels, overclocking, and buggy software updates I'd have become an IT tech. I'm a designer, the machine needs to get the hell out of my way and let me create. As for FromZ... guys, I love your product, but I've been testing other waters and ADS needs to sink some real R&D $$$ into catching up. There's lots of good ideas, but I think you need a fresh infusion of liquidity and programing. I wish you the best. At this point I'm just hoping to get FZ to boot so I can salvage my legacy work of the last 6 years. David, I also have a custom built Threadripper PC that I built myself and it works perfectly with Windows 10, FormZ, VRay, Rhino, 3DSMax, Adobe Suite, etc... If you have tried Overclocking it, you probably shouldn't as that's not going to gain you much in the way of real world performance. Leave that to the silly gamers who want a few more FPS. Running the stock recommended CPU settings have be ultra stable for me even with hours of animations running. If you are struggling with an OS issue, there's usually a simple solution, Windows is much more customizable than MacOS, where you can find many tools to do what you need, often even good free open source tools. Without knowing more about your trouble, it's difficult to say what you are having trouble with, but it sounds like you may need to start with the default settings and then adjust from there. Overclocking will only lead to headaches unless you are an experienced Techy who enjoys the chase and troubleshooting that comes with it. Also, I see no tribal war here, and if you think our simple suggestions are acts of war, then you are sheltered from what war really looks like. We are all here because we love FormZ and want to see it succeed. If you're not here for the love of FormZ, then why are you here? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ktejlgaard Posted July 5, 2022 Share Posted July 5, 2022 On 4/4/2022 at 7:39 PM, Tech said: This is simply not true. We are as committed to macOS as we have ever been. Unfortunately the recent macOS 12.3 update disturbed apps that use Python 2 (macOS 12.2 and lower do not have an issue). While form•Z is not dependent on Python (it is a “weak” dependency) macOS 12.3 responds that Python 2 is available to the app, even when it is not installed. This was an unexpected issue Apple introduced with this update and why installing the latest version of Python 2.7 fixes the issue. form•Z 10 already uses Python 3. We are currently testing a migration of Python 3 back to v9 so that we can improve compatibility with macOS 12.3 sooner. We are actively working on native support for Apple Silicon (M1) for form•Z 10. While a lot of this work has ben completed, some third party components do not yet support Apple Silicon which limits our ability to release a native M1 version. This should all come together the coming months! Makes me happy to find this post. @Tech But 3 months have passed, any news? Recieving my new Macbook M1 this week max to have a new employee work in the studio. And now im fearing that it wont be able to run FormZ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3dworks Posted July 21, 2022 Share Posted July 21, 2022 (edited) It's unusable in it's current state, I'm in the same boat unfortunately. It's sad not to get any ETA or temporary fix from the developers. I need to get my jobs done, so I'm currently testing the concurrent product with animal name. In it's current version, it's running pretty well on M1 (the developer somehow found a way to change the older code to run it decently on silicon), the upcoming version in beta stage is really lightning fast. Edited July 21, 2022 by 3dworks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shibui Design Posted July 22, 2022 Share Posted July 22, 2022 @3dworks, I am considering the same. Pace of development is not keeping up with needs of users. We are experiencing a very long, slow demise. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.