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9.2.01 Doesn't work on Monterey 12.3


jmmanrique
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Same mac, same specs... FZ 9.2 is so unresponsive I'm having to move all my models to SketchUp. I am unable to use my 3D mouse with FZ 9.2, the redraws are so slow it's like I'm working on a 15-year-old machine. Selecting multiple objects is like waiting for popcorn to be ready.

This is not acceptable. It is literally driving me AWAY from FormZ which I sunk years of learning into. Feels like a dead-end for this product as the developers seem to be letting the program languish.

 

Extremely sad.

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🙄

FZ 9.2 works great here on Windows. 

Instead of blaming FormZ, you should realize that this change was caused by Apple and their unwillingness to be compatible and easily integrate with other software.  They have created the closed ecosystem causing these issues, not AutoDesSys.  

If you love FormZ, as so many of us do, and you need to keep doing professional work on new hardware, you can simply buy a PC instead of a new Apple.  The choice is yours.

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On 3/1/2022 at 2:39 PM, Justin Montoya said:

Instead of blaming FormZ, you should realize that this change was caused by Apple and their unwillingness to be compatible and easily integrate with other software.  They have created the closed ecosystem causing these issues, not AutoDesSys.  

If you love FormZ, as so many of us do, and you need to keep doing professional work on new hardware, you can simply buy a PC instead of a new Apple.  The choice is yours.

This is an exceptionally poor take.  

formZ just has a problem keeping up with the technologies that Apple implements in their hardware.  THAT is the issue.  there are likely hundreds of professional software that runs on macOS without a problem.  Everything from spreadsheets, to photo manipulation, to movie editing, to 3D modeling, rendering, and compositing.  Houdini, Nuke, Unreal, Octane, Premier, After Effects, Maya, Cinema 4D, Photoshop (entirety of the Creative Suite), and even the Microsoft Office suite are arguably more professional than formZ and run just fine on M1.

Blaming Apple for formZ not working properly is like blaming Tesla for not playing for favorite mix that's stored on a cassette.  

So sure, keep jamming away on your favorite cassette, no one will stop you.  but the sound quality over the years has diminished.  The choice is yours....

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On 3/3/2022 at 11:04 AM, snow said:

This is an exceptionally poor take.  

formZ just has a problem keeping up with the technologies that Apple implements in their hardware.  THAT is the issue.  there are likely hundreds of professional software that runs on macOS without a problem.  Everything from spreadsheets, to photo manipulation, to movie editing, to 3D modeling, rendering, and compositing.  Houdini, Nuke, Unreal, Octane, Premier, After Effects, Maya, Cinema 4D, Photoshop (entirety of the Creative Suite), and even the Microsoft Office suite are arguably more professional than formZ and run just fine on M1.

Blaming Apple for formZ not working properly is like blaming Tesla for not playing for favorite mix that's stored on a cassette.  

So sure, keep jamming away on your favorite cassette, no one will stop you.  but the sound quality over the years has diminished.  The choice is yours....

This is exceptional ignorance.  

We aren't talking about video, graphics, or office applications!  We're talking about 3D design software, and much of the 3D software world, like FormZ, AutoCAD, and Rhino, operate with and are built on the ACIS Modeler, a 3D modeling kernel developed by Spatial - https://www.spatial.com/products/3d-acis-modeling

This means that true native compatibility is out of formZ's hands.  They have to wait until the ACIS code is updated by Spatial to be natively compatible with ARM chips like the Apple M1.  

Even Rhino, a 3D software with many more resources than our beloved FormZ is also slow and buggy on the Apple chips - https://discourse.mcneel.com/t/rhino-very-slow-on-m1-mac/129432/24

Apple's Rosetta emulation simply isn't working well at handling the 3D ACIS translation at the moment.  To use your analogy, the Apple provided Cassette adapter is buggy and unreliable. 

Nobody is trying to sell you anything.  We are simply stating the facts and offering real, currently available solutions.  If you don't like the solutions offered, you should educate yourself on the real reason for the the problem.  

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On 3/4/2022 at 2:51 PM, Justin Montoya said:

This is exceptional ignorance.  

It’s not ignorance, it’s adaptability.  FormZ is great software, but it is no longer my daily driver because it simply cannot keep up with the rest of the pack.  Sure, one can argue that Apple’s recent hardware changes are limiting formZ’s potential, but the true thing keeping formZ from its full potential is the software itself, not the OS on which it’s being run.  All over this forum are complaints of the dated UI, buggy tools, and lack of 3rd party rendering support—none of which are new issues—therefore, it’s a moot point to wag your finger at Apple when other 3D software packages are keeping up just fine… I guess I was just lucky and jumped on that boat when I had the opportunity and the solution solved itself. 

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20 hours ago, ¢hris £und said:

Here is a crystal ball for you all.

This has been brewing for years, in the form of the secretive Microsoft E2 project which took a different approach to the way processors handle data. A technique called EDGE (Explicit Data Graph Execution) splits data instructions and handles them individually, thereby resulting in far greater throughput when compared to anything offered by Intel. Windows and Linux were successfully ported to this chip as long ago as 2018, but development is still ongoing it seems. Intel shareholders must be getting very nervous indeed!

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I still love Mac OS and 9.2 is working for me with the usual FormZ quirks.  I'm willing to live with the UI and occasional tool bug given the speed and power I can model with in Z.

I am still on Mojave 10.14.6 and prefer to stay a version of OS (or two) behind.  Not possible with a new machine though.

Apple is a pain in terms of hardware inflexibility, but it works for me and I know how to use it so well.  The machines also hold their value very well on the resale market, making the cost of a new machine less painful.  No desire to switch to PC or Windows.  Apple is still a capable ecosystem for many professionals, at least it is for me.  Maybe not for everyone of course, but we can choose right?

However, I hope we get a native Apple Silicon solution soon.  Based on feedback here I will wait to upgrade to a new MacBook Pro of the new Mac Studio until a native solution is out.  Working with edges off is not a good workaround for me.  

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31 minutes ago, AsOne said:

 

.....but we can choose right?

Absolutely! I never could understand the fervour of the zealots on either side. I started on the Mac and loved it. Unfortunately, the ability to run certain CAD software required me to switch to the PC and I grew to love it too. Sure, the Mac was more refined, easier to use, and ran on sexier hardware, but so what? Perhaps Linux will conquer both one day!

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Leider verstehe ich auch nicht, warum diese Diskussion wieder einmal mehr zu einem längst ausser Mode geratenen Software-Krieg ausarten konnte.
Allerdings stelle ich mich ganz klar auf die Seite der Kritiker unserer geliebten 3d Software FormZ.

Ich arbeite seit 1994 mit diesem Werkzeug, die Funktionsweise ist mir wahrscheinlich in Fleisch und Blut übergegangen und ich bin für die Weiterführung meiner Erwerbstätigkeit wahrscheinlich von einer Weiterführung dieses Software abhängig – was mir nicht schwerfällt.

Genau deswegen äussere ich mich in diesen Foren immer wieder kritisch, sei es wegen dem (subjektiv) altmodischen und teilweise unergonomischen UI, die Art und Weise wie zum Beispiel V-Ray implementiert wird und wie es bezüglich der Kommunikation mit den Nutzern aussieht.

Edited by AHDD Designer
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Unfortunately, I also do not understand why this discussion has once again degenerated into a software war that has long since become out of fashion.
However, I clearly take the side of the critics of our beloved 3D software FormZ.

I have been working with this tool since 1994, the way it works has probably become second nature to me and I am probably dependent on the continuation of this software for the purpose of my professional life - which is not difficult for me.

This is exactly why I am always critical in these forums, be because of the (subjectively) old-fashioned and partly unergonomic UI, the way V-Ray, for example, is implemented and how it looks with regard to communication with the users. In this respect I always have to look with envy at other products, such as Blender, Keyshot, Rhino and Affinity. 

That I bet on this horse 30 years ago, which feels so wobbly today, always makes me angry and sad - but I could live with that. But why do I feel no indication and no effort on the part of AutoDesSys to remove these concerns and to communicate future perspectives clearly and proactively?

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If I was running ADS, I would seriously consider developing a simple FZ add-on for the likes of Blender. Why? Because it currently lacks good, CAD-like modelling functionality, and it has a VAST user base. The opening is there, and at $50 - $100 a pop, it would sell like hotcakes! Who knows, some of that user base may even progress to our beloved full-fat version as a result!

We desperately need fresh blood! From what I see, only a tiny handful of diehard existing (or previous) users frequent this board over and over again, which is a real shame! Where are the other supposed thousands that are meant to exist? The answer is that they have almost certainly gone elsewhere! It's a minute to midnight.....

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12.3 has dropped support for Python v.2, which is the cause for the crash. If you manually download and install Python it should get you back up and running. Here is the link to the Python installer: https://www.python.org/ftp/python/2.7.18/python-2.7.18-macosx10.9.pkg

great tip, using new macbook pro max here as well! what settings do we need to use on M1 chips? my first experience with it opening a large project file on which i'm working on my mac pro is just terrible slow. any hints what the cause could be? all other graphics apps i'm running on the new macbook - even the non optimized ones on rosetta are running faster than with the 12 core macpro + ATI radeon 580RX card, but this one seems to be almost unusable.

Edited by 3dworks
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It makes me sad to read this and other threads here. But I think we (MacOS users) must say the truth to ourselves,  ADS dropped the support to MacOS they just not admitting it.

My advice to all of you, move on.

If you can't wait, change to hardware or change the software, whatever is less painful, and never look back. In the end of the day we need this tools to work for us, not the other way around.

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