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V-Ray 5 for form•Z Beta now available

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FZ 9.2 beta and Vray 5 downloaded and installed.
I couldn't go into depth yet, but I played around a bit.

So much in the first instance:
The installation worked wonderfully right away.
The two betas work prima vista well.
The render is very fast.

I'm so excited about this that I'd like to announce it and encourage other users to test it.

iMac (Retina 5K, 27-inch, 2019)
3.6 GHz Intel Core i9
Mac OS 10.14.6 Mojave

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So far the beta for formZ and vray  seems stable. I have been experimenting with light mix. It works well and is stable. I am not sure if it is available yet or maybe I haven't found it yet but, I have not been able to group the lights. I haven't notice a huge speed increase as I can't access the video card technology. 

System

iMac Pro 10 core

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10 hours ago, flakie said:

So far the beta for formZ and vray  seems stable. I have been experimenting with light mix. It works well and is stable. I am not sure if it is available yet or maybe I haven't found it yet but, I have not been able to group the lights. I haven't notice a huge speed increase as I can't access the video card technology. 

System

iMac Pro 10 core

All the speed improvements are coming from GPU advancements from NVIDIA and the amazing new RTX 2070+  and particularly 3xxx series as VRAY only supports this path so far.

Apple has gone down the 'Metal' path and implemented some amazing results from their new Apple M1 series CPU/GPU with Neural Engine and they are fast ( very fast ) but so far only only supported by Redshift & Octane and NOT VRAY - hope that changes. Oh - and the other issue is that Apple also requires you to use Mac OS11.2+ ( Big Sur )

Let's hope we see Vray supporting Apple 'Metal' soon.

Rob

 

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17 hours ago, Smarttec said:

All the speed improvements are coming from GPU advancements from NVIDIA and the amazing new RTX 2070+  and particularly 3xxx series as VRAY only supports this path so far.

Apple has gone down the 'Metal' path and implemented some amazing results from their new Apple M1 series CPU/GPU with Neural Engine and they are fast ( very fast ) but so far only only supported by Redshift & Octane and NOT VRAY - hope that changes. Oh - and the other issue is that Apple also requires you to use Mac OS11.2+ ( Big Sur )

Let's hope we see Vray supporting Apple 'Metal' soon.

Rob

 

Rob-

That's not entirely true.  While the GPU rendering is getting the bulk of the news, they are continuing to improve the CPU renderer as well.  It's faster with the lighting system changes, especially the adaptive dome light.  The VFB is a HUGE upgrade, and there are many CPU based material upgrades as well.  Light Mix is a game changer and a huge time saver so that's a CPU speed improvement as well.

Sure, the GPU rendering is fast, add Hybrid (with CPU as a GPU rendering source) and it's even faster.  The RTX engine is also very fast and it's still relatively new.  The problem with these engines is that they lack all the features of the CPU engine, which means for many people, they are not useful for production work.   For this reason, the main VRAY CPU engine is still very popular and will keep being improved and refined on it's own.  That's good news for you Apple users stuck without awesome CUDA based GPU rendering options.

Apple has made it's own walled fortress which is really restrictive to creative professionals who like to have every option possible when it comes to CREATING.  Their tiff with NVIDIA is moronic and hurtful to it's brand champions (designers) who carried them through their dark times.  

VRay GPU is unlikely to be ported over to Apple's Metal because there are relatively, VERY FEW 3D rendering professionals using Apple hardware these days.  Chaos will continue to spend their development money on the larger user bases that is more profitable. 

But lucky for you, the VRay CPU engine works fine on your closed wall Apple system and FormZ is one of the few 3D applications still supporting Apple as well.  

Just don't expect more than VRay CPU on your Apple and you won't be disappointed.

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Hey guys help, I got the chaos e-mail that says to download, I click and enter my chaos password, takes me to Vray for all sorts of apps, but not formZ, even after rooting around. I didn't get anything else regarding a 9.2 formz link to download a new formz app. How does the install work this time?

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Hi cobrien, thanks for saving me, of course ADS removed the temporary link for all the legal reasons, of course. I think my companies e-mail sorter modified the original e-mail links and destroyed them to protect me from evil. I got it tho.😁

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Posted (edited)

Ok, I just benched a real render file from yesterday. formZ 9.1 with VRay cpu only (i never got hardware to help at all) 20 cores 38:58. formZ 9.2 with VRay5 and RTX 2070: 13:05. I know this isn't the same tech to compare, but it is the first comparison of what time it will save me because those times are just great.

Justin, your rig must totally destroy renders now. Is my increase because I used a dome light in my scene (I changed nothing) or just because of the RTX  processor? Both? Anyone know this yet?

 

Edited by johnalexander1571

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Posted (edited)

Interesting about animation, have not had a chance to test that yet.

Generally the speed increase is going to be mainly the change to the GPU engine.  Either GPU + Hybrid (Make sure you select your devices) or the RTX engine option will be a major speed boost over CPU with the appropriate hardware.  But you may find you are missing some features like alpha channel background in the rendering output. 

Every engine is faster in v5 though, CPU included, than our old 3.6.  Some is because of the adaptive dome light when you are using a dome light in your scene.

I'm thrilled with v5 so far!! 

Edited by Justin Montoya

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On 7/14/2021 at 4:36 AM, Justin Montoya said:

Rob-

That's not entirely true.  While the GPU rendering is getting the bulk of the news, they are continuing to improve the CPU renderer as well.  It's faster with the lighting system changes, especially the adaptive dome light.  The VFB is a HUGE upgrade, and there are many CPU based material upgrades as well.  Light Mix is a game changer and a huge time saver so that's a CPU speed improvement as well.

Sure, the GPU rendering is fast, add Hybrid (with CPU as a GPU rendering source) and it's even faster.  The RTX engine is also very fast and it's still relatively new.  The problem with these engines is that they lack all the features of the CPU engine, which means for many people, they are not useful for production work.   For this reason, the main VRAY CPU engine is still very popular and will keep being improved and refined on it's own.  That's good news for you Apple users stuck without awesome CUDA based GPU rendering options.

Apple has made it's own walled fortress which is really restrictive to creative professionals who like to have every option possible when it comes to CREATING.  Their tiff with NVIDIA is moronic and hurtful to it's brand champions (designers) who carried them through their dark times.  

VRay GPU is unlikely to be ported over to Apple's Metal because there are relatively, VERY FEW 3D rendering professionals using Apple hardware these days.  Chaos will continue to spend their development money on the larger user bases that is more profitable. 

But lucky for you, the VRay CPU engine works fine on your closed wall Apple system and FormZ is one of the few 3D applications still supporting Apple as well.  

Just don't expect more than VRay CPU on your Apple and you won't be disappointed.

I take your point the VRay 5 is a huge improvement over 3.6 as you say even for CPU.

I have had the opportunity lately to benchmark  Corona Render ( which is a CPU only renderer = Chaos Labs ) vs Redshift (nvidia RTX) and even the standard Cinema 4D renderer on the same file for a hi-res 4K image

Redshift beat Corona (marginally 2m:55 vs 3m:24 ) std HDRI C4D renderer was 35m: + ( The Corona ran on i7 4 core/ 32GB and the Redshift on same with RTX 2070-8G )

The interesting part is that Redshift is ported to run on Metal and a standard MacBook PRO M1 8/8 core 16 core neural engine - was under 6m  

 

My point is Apple, now is getting people to port to Metal ( Redshift & Octane so far ) and it is fast on their new M1 chips. Apple and Metal will be competing hard in the new VR/AR space.

I'm interested if Metal and the new Mac's will be used by the games style engines Unreal Engine & Unity as their rendering is now very competitive against all.

My hope is that V-Ray see's the opportunity with Metal and the new Apple M1 chip - I hope you're wrong about it being unlikely.

 

Rob

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Posted (edited)

Only one oblique to add to that Rob, I noticed that during the tech webinar for Unreal 5, using Lumen for real time global illumination, they outright stated that they were not even trying to make the new real-time ray tracing available for VR. The dev said that they are just now able to ray trace one frame rate at passable speeds, 2 eyes is so far out it's not even being attempted. That's not to say AR/VR are not going to be viable down the road without real-time raytracing, but that's how far we are away from the hardware being ready. I'm not trying to do that now, so I'm going with the NVidia side, betting since it will always be less costly. Vray has a competitive product starting out meant to be a competitor to TM. I suspect we'll see this thing being a beast in a ring of other real-time choices not too far down the road.

Ramble over

Edited by johnalexander1571

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Apart of Redshift, Otoys Octane is also available for Metal users and running extremely well. As I pushed my hardware also forward to use Big Sur and Metal with AMD graphics cards, I guess Vray without such an option will not be a likely upgrade for me on FZ right now. Running happily C4D with Octane on Macs here.

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3 hours ago, 3dworks said:

Apart of Redshift, Otoys Octane is also available for Metal users and running extremely well. As I pushed my hardware also forward to use Big Sur and Metal with AMD graphics cards, I guess Vray without such an option will not be a likely upgrade for me on FZ right now. Running happily C4D with Octane on Macs here.

Do you do all of your work in C4D or are you modeling in formZ and exporting into Cinema?  

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11 hours ago, snow said:

Do you do all of your work in C4D or are you modeling in formZ and exporting into Cinema?  

Cinema 4D and formZ are completely different tools and although the Cinema4D modeler is very capable for many things - at it's core C4D is a 3D motion graphics tool - formZ is a complete accurate 3D modeler.

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8 hours ago, Smarttec said:

Cinema 4D and formZ are completely different tools and although the Cinema4D modeler is very capable for many things - at it's core C4D is a 3D motion graphics tool - formZ is a complete accurate 3D modeler.

I'm aware of the differences as I currently use both in my everyday workflow.  But every time I justify one of formZ's quirks bugs I ask myself "I wonder if I should spend more time in C4D".   I believe most of the stuff I create in formZ is able to be done in Cinema, but with a little extra time to properly figure it out.  And, it's possible that some of that stuff is BETTER in C4D because of it's non-destructive modeling techniques when being called to revise concepts.  This is why I'm curious if someone made that transition to formZ to C4D for all modeling, if it is worth that extra time and beginning frustrations to do all work in Cinema.

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On 7/23/2021 at 3:20 PM, snow said:

I'm aware of the differences as I currently use both in my everyday workflow.  But every time I justify one of formZ's quirks bugs I ask myself "I wonder if I should spend more time in C4D".   I believe most of the stuff I create in formZ is able to be done in Cinema, but with a little extra time to properly figure it out.  And, it's possible that some of that stuff is BETTER in C4D because of it's non-destructive modeling techniques when being called to revise concepts.  This is why I'm curious if someone made that transition to formZ to C4D for all modeling, if it is worth that extra time and beginning frustrations to do all work in Cinema.

I'm always using FZ for all the architectural modeling in my projects. The modeling and polygonal editing features in C4D are extremely useful however, once the model was imported into the scene and setup for rendering. I wish there was a better data connection between FZ and C4D but actually it works quite well going the route via VRML or Sketchup format.
Before switching to C4D, I used Lightwave for many years, and FZ supported that format directly. However, LW became less and less well supported on the Mac side, and C4D, while expensive, has so many useful and straightforward features that make my work much easier now. LWCAD, a complete parametric and NURBS capable modeling plugin formerly just available for LW is now availeble and actively developed for C4D, so maybe in future this could be used inside the package as an alternative modelling tool.

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