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Polygon cages for smoothing

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ok, last one for today...

not an approach I have seen put forward by ADS but something more in line with other poly modellers - it's not perfect by any means but it gives me ideas

uses meshed planes, the stitch and thicken tool and finally subd

 

5.jpg

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I made a beginning tutorial that I need to edit a bit. I will post it tonight.   Regardless of which tools you use, SDS modeling is a different mindset.

Steve, Yes, I do a lot of my work in Poly mode.  But quite frankly, I do that in Modo too.  For me, it is easier to see what is actually happening.

 

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no worries Chris

quick question to anyone interested - the attached is an approach to subd I see time and time again from other SDS modellers where flat planes have edges extruded to form a basic poly shape (or they are derived from primitives) - the whole form is then extruded and then rounded. All makes perfect sense to me and can yield very clean meshes and accurate results

Is this approach possible in FZ? I have tried every way I can think of and whilst I have had a certain amount of success it really only works for basic forms. I've tried the box modelling approach but I've found that the reshape tool quite quickly stops working once a block has been manipulated more than once

 

Untitled-1.jpg

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regarding reshape tool, my bad - I must have twisted the forms slightly because it works when I triangulate the blocks (not much good for subd though)

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OK, finally getting somewhere on the Coke bottle

all modelled using SDS, however it's been a bit of a trial and it feels as though there isn't the tool set to really make this sort of work feasible in FormZ. I don't use the SDS edit tools because they're too unwieldy for any accurate work and I like to be in control of the mesh underneath. Using the swap tools produces weird results too - the cage was fine so far through but then suddenly changed to this...I carried on trying to edit the mesh in subd mode after that.

 

 

Bottle 1.jpg

Bottle 2.jpg

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Steve,

The tools are there.   it looks like you hit the divide tool at least twice to bump up the resolution.  I am just about to post video 4.  Which shows the steps to use on the coke bottle.

Had a little more figuring out for the final.  Will capture that today.

 

¢£

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thanks Chris

I look forward to seeing them. Re: tools - is it possible to select/add loops, add cuts, extrude edges etc. as with other subd modellers? I've looked at Modo too and have to say it looks way ahead in terms of subd. I don't mind that FZ may not be as advanced as other subd software, I'm just trying to work out what it's capable of without having to jump through hoops to get a decent result

NURBS is another area I really want to learn - I get the feeling that this is one of FZ's real strengths

 

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Steve, fZ has some of the direct Sub-D tools.  But admittedly, not all.  Combined with its other tools, it isn't too much of a limitation.  For the coke bottle, it has what we need.

Though, As I mentioned earlier, if they allow me access to the underlying Sub-D API, I do want to add some tools with python.  I don't know if that will happen or not.

I just figured out some of the crappy video settings were on my end. Though YouTube is taking its sweet time in processing higher resolution versions.   I am going to re-upload them all with better settings on my end.

Here is the current version.  I had to do some re-figuring which the next video explains. Now that I know what I am doing, it doesn't take too long to generate.  Perfection may take a little longer.   fZ file attached below the screencap.

 

1923005049_ScreenShot2020-06-12at9_26_21AM.thumb.png.a87cf29fa156613ce845f40d5c1ca639.png

New Bottle2 8.6.fmz

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PS,

I will see if I can do a version with NURBS + other tools.  While I think that Sub-Ds are a good solution for this shape  The beauty of formZ, is you aren't limited to them.

 

One thing I do think about formZ's Sub-Ds is:  ADS has made a push to more and more elegant modeling solutions such as NURBS, smooth lofting and Sub-Ds etc. And have been slowly paring down the so-called lower quality modeling techniques.  The trick is, Sub-Ds actually benefit from some of those lower quality techniques.

I have requested upgrades to the Sub-D toolset.  Though to be honest, they will only move under 2 conditions (that I can think of).  

1. The logic of my request is immediately clear and makes 100% sense to them.  (Personally, I think I fail here a lot)

2. There is overwhelming support for a requested item by the community at large.

Since we are getting into this heavily, and there is interest. Now may be the time to post a request again for situation #2 to take hold.

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hey Chris

I've just quickly skipped to the crucial part and using the grow face tool in that way really helps, I'll have a better look later

I don't understand ADS - this is the first really useful looking tutorial I've seen that deals with solving actual 3D problems likely to be faced by a 3D modeller. Thank You

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Posted (edited)

No worries!

As much as I like to speculate, I don't know enough of their internal operations to even begin here.   I just exported out higher quality copies of the first 3 videos and will upload them shortly.

Cheers!

P.S.  I would be open to a job if they wanted me...hah!

Edited by ¢hris £und
added a P.S.

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hey Chris

well, if I were ADS I'd be on the phone pronto 😎

by way of reciprocity, here's my approach - a bit more basic but it gets me in the ball park. I'm sure you can see what's going on. Revolve a profile paying attention to points and segment count. Use the move tool to shift segments into desired shape down one side, repeat x 7 and add subd

 

1.jpg

2.jpg

3.jpg

4.jpg

5.jpg

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Posted (edited)

Yea, the general feel is there.  I do think that adding detail to the control mesh will bring it out more vs just pulling on the geometry.  Will aid in other shapes too.

Have you figured out how to get the liquid in a glass container to render correct?  There is an easy trick to it.  Technically it has to do with the index of refraction of the two materials being close to each other (glass and the liquid) at their boundary vs that of the glass and air boundary being quite different.   Physics stuff.   As mentioned above, there is a trick around the physics.

 

¢£

Full quality videos are up.  Links in the tutorial page.

Edited by ¢hris £und

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hmm...that sounds technical...

I've given the bottle a thickness and revolved a slightly smaller profile to fit inside so far, I'd usually knock up a texture in Photoshop to emulate what's going on inside (I'm pretty good at fudging things!)

unless there's a better way?...

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Posted (edited)

It isn't.

1. Don't forget the meniscus on the top surface of the liquid.   Most liquids the meniscus is concave.  A few like Mercury is convex.  (I don't recall the reason.  Surface tension maybe)

2. The Liquid that contacts the container should be exactly the container shape.

3. Where the liquid contacts the container, there should be NO container surface.

4. Be aware of the directions of the normals.  The surface of the liquid that contacts air should point to the air.  The surface that contacts the container should point to the container.

 

The reason is, as light passes into the glass, it bends due to its index of refraction.  It doesn't bend back when it contacts the liquid/container boundary, it just bends to the new index of refraction.   If the inside of the container is modeled, it attempts to bend back to air then again to the liquid.   i.e. 2 boundaries instead of the correct 1.    This trick forces it to be only 1 at the liquid/Container boundary.

Attached file to help this make sense. The attached file is meant to be Sub-D (to keep with the theme).  Kept as Poly to keep the file size down.

Glass Sample.fmz

 

Cheers!

Edited by ¢hris £und

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yes, I have seen it a few times

it is very useful and got me started - unfortunately the problem I find with all ADS tutorials is they all tend to be broad strokes or overviews and that's been a particular problem for me with SDS. There's very little in the manual and when you delve deeper into the subject using other software videos you find that FormZ has some fundamental differences. Maybe FZ's tools are better but ADS really needs to put more effort into showing us why. SDS modelling seems to be such a popular technique it's little wonder FZ is overlooked as a serious 3D modeller.

One of FormZ's strengths is supposed to be it's accuracy so it's odd that there isn't anything to show that in action doing real world stuff like you have kindly demonstrated.

Thanks for all your help on this Chris, I hope that maybe I can return the favour at some point with a few tips of my own 😎

PS. is there any chance you could back save the glass example? cheers!

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Apologies, I thought I did.

Well, Sub-D is really more of a fluid modeling method than accuracy.  However, by applying Z's other tools, you can attain what other modelers cannot.

No worries, It is hard to fathom how much I have learned from others here as well.

Glass Sample.Copy.fmz

Cheers and good luck!

¢£

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