modelling more complex, real world product

[SJD]

Hi all

I'm a long time user of FZ but have never ventured far into the more complex areas of modelling. I'm a trade booth and showroom designer and I want to expand my skillset so I can visualise exact representations of product and furniture. I have watched some tutorials and I can see the amazing capabilities of the different tools but the models created don't seem to be based on anything that exists in reality. 

What I'd like to do is model in something like a vac-form chair or a shampoo bottle to precise dimensions so it's a true representation. Could someone suggest the best approach and which tools I should be looking to learn. The tutorials on NURBS and Subdivisions look great but the examples are rather loose and not based on creating anything specific and to scale 

thanks in advance

steve

 

[¢hris £und]

SJD,

Are you using v9?  if so, you can jump over to the LAB - Plugins section of forum.  There I posted a script where you can model something to the shape completely free of the constraints of thinking about the size.  Then using the script, you can set a specific length, area or volume of your model.  In the case of something like a shampoo bottle, you would model the hollow then apply the script,  then continue modeling.    Best of all, the script is completely agnostic to the form you come up with.

The script is a WIP Currently and it is a utility script, so not the most convenient. And does need additional functionality to be a polished tool.  But as a proof of concept, it does work pretty well.   You will currently need to do your unit conversions as everything is currently in "feet" only.  that is feet, square feet and cubic feet.   Other units will come.  I haven't used it in metric, so don't even know its behavior there.  You will probably want to use it on an imperial project for now.

Outside of it, you can use the measure tool to set the size of a cartesian measurement (not restricted to the XYZ axis)  It would be this, that you would probably want to use on something like a chair.  where the bounding dimensions or some other cartesian measurement would be the determining scale.  The tips a and tricks page has a short tutorial on how to use it as a tool for setting the scale of an object directly.  It works well for its intended use.

Hope this helps - ¢£

The mac compiled script, if you need to use it on a PC, I will upload the source.

https://forums.formz.com/applications/core/interface/file/attachment.php?id=5403

A link to the thread, which has instructions and use cases.

 

Edited April 14, 2020 by Chris lund

[SJD]

thanks for the speedy reply Chris!

I'm now on 8.6, having recently moved from v6 so it's quite a learning curve

the one (slightly annoying) thing I'm finding with a lot of the tutorials is that they are quite loose and there is no consideration to specific sizes which relate to the real world. All well and good if you are creating a concept but not so if you are trying to recreate something that already exists. When I'm designing trade stands or showrooms I plan it out first so I'm working to a very specific set of parameters when I start to model. I want to do the same if I model in specific items of furniture or product - they need to be accurate for the client to see not just an approximation.

I'm just wondering if there are any tutorials on this site that take this 'real world' approach

thanks again

steve

 

[¢hris £und]

Yes, I fully agree that the step between 6 and 8.6 is a large one.  While I dabbled with 7 and 8, I didn't make the move to production work until 8.5 where I thought there was enough solidity to it.  There are substantial subtle differences too.  Once you commit though, it is worth it, IMHO.  That being said, there are some items that I still think I wish were back in the more contemporary versions.  For me, scripting is the most compelling reason to upgrade to 9.  I know others don't quite see it the same way.

The Measurement tool is what you want for this case.  There is a writeup I have seen somewhere...

It may seem a tad unintuitive to use a measurement tool to specify the final size.  However, in practice, it works really well.  Mostly, because you can do it in a single shot.  You don't have to measure, write it down, grab a calculator to do any ratio proportions between what you have and what you want.  finally, you don't have to switch tools...  

Simple instructions are, measure between two points on the object that you know needs to be of a specific size.  change the measurement to what you want in the tool options palette. and apply... you are done.

In most cases this would be some points that determine the Min/Max or bounds of the object,   However, this isn't explicitly the case.  You can use an internal measurement as well.  Which makes it quite useful.

For the sake of being more complete, I am going to consider that you are need to apply your transformation to an assemblage instead of a single object.

1. Under edit menu, make sure "Unlock Groups" is turned OFF.  (not checked)

2. select all objects that you want to transform (scale) and group them.  (here I specifically did not group in the bolts that hold down the pillow block bearings to show that the group does have an effect)

3. choose the "Measure-Dist" tool and measure the distance of a portion of your model that you know the new size to be.

note here, I selected points within the bounds of the object.  being 20.00 mm,  Also note in the top right where the tool options are, it also shows the 20.00 mm

4. It is here in the tool options dialog that you want to make your adjustment to the desired size.  I chose 40.00 mm and hit update.  (Sometimes it will update on it's own, Not positive, but I think it might be linked to the controlled rounding "auto update".

You are done.  Again, note that the bolts holding the pillow block bearings did not scale with the rest of the assemblage.  This was to illustrate that it did in fact scale the group.

Hope this helps  and model on!

¢£

P.S. this is a CNC Wire bending mechanism.  Or part of it any way.

Edited April 14, 2020 by Chris lund

[SJD]

thanks again Chris, lots of info there - I'll have a good look through 👍

here's an example of the kind of thing I'd like to achieve - this is a professional model and is an actual representation of a real chair that exists. All the measurements and profiles are accurate to the real thing and not just an approximation that has been eyed up on screen to look similar.

I would be the same if I wanted to model in say, a specific aircraft - I'd have to start with plans and profiles to get it accurate but then I'm not sure how I would apply some of the tools I've been looking at to a set of drawings

Tech - could you suggest which tools I should be looking at to achieve accurate representations of real objects that have more than just basic geometry?

thanks

steve

 

[Des]

Hi Steve,

If you know where the seams are on that chair, you can trace their positions. Do only one side and mirror later.

I would use the NURBS by U/V Curves tool. That will allow you to accurately model that shape and still be able to adjust it.

I've attached a car I started years ago but never had the chance to finish but it is the same process. Trace the splines, manipulate and make sure they touch accurately, add intermediates and shift select them and hey presto.

Hope this helps.

 

Des

 

BeetleTest.zip

[SJD]

hey Des

thanks, that looks exactly the kind of thing I'm thinking. I'm afraid my last foray into this kind of modelling was using version 2.95 and it didn't end well!

Obviously FZ has come a long long way since then and with so many tools at my disposal it's difficult to suss out which ones are better suited to specific jobs. I think, in general I'm going to be looking to represent existing objects accurately rather than conceptualising and sculpting or moulding my own designs. I found some interesting videos on Rhino which looks at this, modelling a kettle from 2D plans.

It's a pity there aren't any FZ tutorials like this that demonstrate it being used in real life commercial situations

thanks again

steve

 

 

Edited April 15, 2020 by SJD

[Des]

That kettle looks quite easy to do in FormZ, but you are right, it's about choosing the best tools for any particular job. That comes from experience with Fz but I'd suggest visiting the tutorials page for some samples. This page has disappeared from the web site and some are very old but I think the approach to each which is informative.

Also, try the YouTube tutorials as well. Even though I've been using FormZ for many years, I always find something that I didn't know or have forgotten.

And of course the updated Tips & Tricks page.

The manual is good too as some of the tools can be "sensitive" 😉

Des

[SJD]

thanks Des, that tutorials page looks very useful 👍

[¢hris £und]

I totally misunderstood the question... Wasn't even on a tangent.  Apologies!

[Des]

2 hours ago, Chris lund said:

I totally misunderstood the question... Wasn't even on a tangent.  Apologies!

Doesn't matter Chris, that's some seriously nice modelling there, always a pleasure to see!

Des

[SJD]

hey Chris, no worries

some useful info there

thank you both, stay safe dudes 😎

[¢hris £und]

Well, thanks fellas!

 

¢£