Jump to content
AutoDesSys Forums
AHTOH

Long awaited Draft Layout App.

Recommended Posts

Hello  formziers.

I am one of the biggest enthusiasts of FormZ since 1994.

I was waiting for new FormZ for years. So here it is now! And here what I see:

Drafting module is useless. You can draw in it and than just throw out your hard work as you cant neither print nor interchange your drawing with modeling environment. If you try to open old Draft file with Libraries you should expect a crash as the only result.

Not sure about Component system which is essential for pro architects. Doubt. Anyone tried it with any luck?

Fonts do not work properly. The only ones I see are outlined shame as well as they was in v.7-8. I am tired to answer questions if I can print proper project layout.

The only real change in modeling is Symmetry Tool. But you can`t draw symmetrical shapes at once but need to do some "boolean" fist and draw in doubtful way than. All the other changes are really minor ones.

We all indicated tons of possible improvements in FZ Suggestion forum. Yet almost none of them where implemented.

I am terribly sorry Autodessys. You lost my upgrade money and losing my loyalty.

Disappointing.

There is a topic here about why FormZ is not as popular as the other 3D apps say MODO or Cinema. This is why.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Anton

I understand your frustration with this release.  We were all a little surprised at the lack of depth in this one.  However, they are making some definite improvements to the way the whole program works.  Just not enough to satisfy our long pent up demand for something truly ground breaking, which many of us were hoping for. I get the impression  that this release is still a work in progress at this time so maybe things will get ironed out soon.  One big change for me will be the introduction of reference objects which will substantially improve overall system performance and replace the awful component system that has been a thorn in my side for years.  Once they make reference objects selectable so we can move them I will use v9.  Until then I am sticking with v8.  Hang in there.  

AW

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

AHTOH,

Sorry that you feel this way. You participated in the v9 beta and yet never mentioned these issues you are encountering. We found 3 tickets regarding v9 issues: 1 was about your registration code and two about palette issues (which have been resolved).

There are many additional features besides symmetry not to mention the overall performance improvements. Did you see the list here?

You can interchange your drawing with the modeling environment (see Import from Drafting in the file Menu). Also printing and opening classic Draft files with Libraries work with our tests. We would be happy to investigate the issue further to see why these are not working for you. Please email the details to support with the files that are causing problems and we will get to the bottom of the issue.

A number of the new features in v9 were suggested in the forum. We could not possibly implement all of the suggestions so If there are specific features that are important to you please be clear in what they are rather than the vague reference in your post.

We are working on a couple of other issues that have been reported in v9 layout. We would be happy to work directly with you in a constructive manner to resolve the issues you are encountering.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
30 minutes ago, Andrew West said:

Until then I am sticking with v8

So because Reference files do not have this feature (which is a good idea BTW), you are going to forgo all the other improvements? Really? Components received an overhaul in v9. Did you even try them? 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
26 minutes ago, Tech said:

AHTOH,

Sorry that you feel this way. You participated in the v9 beta and yet never mentioned these issues you are encountering. We found 3 tickets regarding v9 issues: 1 was about your registration code and two about palette issues (which have been resolved).

There are many additional features besides symmetry not to mention the overall performance improvements. Did you see the list here?

You can interchange your drawing with the modeling environment (see Import from Drafting in the file Menu). Also printing and opening classic Draft files with Libraries work with our tests. We would be happy to investigate the issue further to see why these are not working for you. Please email the details to support with the files that are causing problems and we will get to the bottom of the issue.

 A number of the new features in v9 were suggested in the forum. We could not possibly implement all of the suggestions so If there are specific features that are important to you please be clear in what they are rather than the vague reference in your post.

 We are working on a couple of other issues that have been reported in v9 layout. We would be happy to work directly with you in a constructive manner to resolve the issues you are encountering.

Dear Tech.

Thank`s for your kind reply on my rough post.

My participation on 9 Beta was quite calm yet:

I wrote to Support about outlined fonts and was replied to change font and they (you?) don`t have any issues with is. After my second inquiry about inconsistent reply there was a silence.

I wrote a post and it was supported by nicer user (sorry I don`t remember who was it) then me who kindly noted that he has either use Autocad or gets often asked about quality of his drawings in a part of fonts. This also was never noticed.

I repeatedly asked about your vision as for workflow with Modeling-Drafting-Layout. For some reason you (them?) never managed to reply. 

My multiple critics to pity Layout implementation and superiority of a concept of outdated Drafting FormZ 6 module also was multiply ignored.

 

Best regards,

Anton Voloshin.

Screen Shot 2020-03-04 at 22.40.40.png

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
42 minutes ago, Tech said:

You can interchange your drawing with the modeling environment

But the idea of the whole thing was to interchange either way. Say my typical workflow is to make quite rough model get it to Drafting and than make precise blueprints. 

NOT to make precise model which is nearly impossible and totally senseless and than wait for ages it is being rendered within Layout. And than repeat and wait ones more for redraw in Layout. And again after slightest change. Sometimes (usually) it takes so long that I already read entire Internet for third time.

I am not sure you guys know but CAD was created to make blueprints faster not slower.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
7 minutes ago, AHTOH said:

interchange either way

You can. In Model app select "Import From Drafting" from the File Menu, in Draft Layout select "Import From Modeling" from the File menu.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I too disagree with Anton on this one.   From what I have  been able to gather, a LOT has changed in v9.  Not just symmetry.

Prime example, python scripting:  This isn't implemented at some surface cheap paint on level.  It is at it's core.  And would have been significant to implement.  The python API appears to be made a lot simpler too.  Meaning, the python API isn't merely simple wrappers of it's existing C/C++ API.  More effort!  I suspect that what we have now is also just the beginning.  Setting the stage for more to come.  FREAKING HUGE EFFORT!

Though, I guess I will have to explore Draft/Layout, to see what it can and cannot do.  I really can't agree or disagree about that part.  Main reason I never got into it, as mentioned elsewhere, I needed Color for the output of my documents. So, I resorted to Illustrator.  Which created some of it's own issues.

¢£

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
11 hours ago, Tech said:

You can. In Model app select "Import From Drafting" from the File Menu, in Draft Layout select "Import From Modeling" from the File menu.

Sorry for being a little harsh and sorry I did not notice that option.

Yet there is a question: which way I suppose to draw in real scale and than print my blueprints? For some reason there is no interchange between Draft and Layout. Also Draft Layout mode in Draft does not do anything. Or I just did not figure out the way it works.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
14 hours ago, CJTFORM-Z said:

 

To all,

I thought I'd continue this topic under this heading as wasn't aware initially it was discussed in some detail prior, hence the link above. 

As I noted before, the SU-LAYOUT separate programme is really just for preparing your drawing sheets with some 2D tools etc for that purpose. So, the FZ version when it was first released, I guess was meant to emulate that principle function but was never too sure how users got on with this. 

Anyway, trying to play catchup on this subject, I now see the new FZ-ver-9 release notes (as copied below) suggests to some extent, the (old) DRAFT-MODULE is now combined with the previous separate LAYOUT programme & is now called: DRAFT-LAYOUT. 

It certainly is an interesting move, however I get the feeling & reading some other posts, users who work in FZver-6 as well, will still feel their work flows difficult to attain.  

 

form•Z Draft Layout

Draft Layout is a new app that combines the features of the classic form•Z Drafting environment (v6 and earlier) and the layout environment of form•Z 7/8. This includes the separate draft and layout spaces from v6 and the sheet management and dimension styles from v 7/8.

Draft Space is a real world scale 2D environment. This environment is ideal when you need to work on 2D data at its actual size. Layout Space is a paper scale 2D environment. It is designed for multi sheet layouts of drawings. form•Z Draft Layout and it can open classic form•Z Drafting files directly!

The updated FML file format maintains a draft and layout space for each project. The FML format is now much more efficient than previous versions (i.e. files are smaller).

When starting a new Draft Layout project, you can choose to start in Draft or Layout space. The Layout mode item in the Display menu indicates if you are viewing the layout Space. Use this to switch between spaces.

Layout Space now has a number of features found in the classic form•Z color drafting environment: Color Palette, Draft Pane creation and selection tools.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 3/4/2020 at 7:11 PM, Tech said:

A number of the new features in v9 were suggested in the forum. We could not possibly implement all of the suggestions so If there are specific features that are important to you please be clear in what they are rather than the vague reference in your post.

Personally, I am waiting for improvements to the info management displays as requested during beta testing. When that has been improved I plan to evaluate whether I am happy with the new user interface which was not yet finished when I last looked during beta. I regret that at the time of beta I had limited time available to be involved but I did contribute a little. If I am happy with it and most wrinkles and creases have been ironed out I will look out for a good deal for upgrade of 3 licences, but am hanging back because autodessys don't seem to have enough faith in the new release to market it properly which is quite worrying. It seems like such a wasted opportunity, because with a little more faith and investment, (could be wrong but I suspect this maybe in the guise of another competent and enthusiastic staff member to help you out) I believe the market is ripe for a big burst of FormZ taking it from a dawdle to a gallop. I do hope the potential is fully realised and the best balance for speed of progress is attained.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Alan,

A lot of the interface wrinkles have been ironed out since the beta.  I will have to go back and see to what you are referring to "info management displays."

Were these suggested on then forum?

 

¢£

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hi Chris, yes I posted details on the Beta forum about 1 week before full release of V9. I'm at work so sorry don't have time to find and point to it atm. It is to do with the small information windows which I would like to be able to be resized and made full screen when required as I find some information gets truncated with a lot of columns for bills of materials. There are some other improvements I would like to see in info management to make export/import a bit better from the csv output, less essential, but would be nice all the same.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

hello everyone

I bounce on what we say CJTFORM-Z and Alan Cooper ...
I am one of the users of version 6 in particular because of the correct functioning of the Draft module
During the beta test I was particularly interested in this part of the program.
I brought up various problems
The beta test ended abruptly (too soon IMHO)
I stayed in touch by email
We also communicated a set of files from which the developer could investigate ...
I haven't had any clear feedback on problem solving.
In addition I asked to know if the questions were resolved with the commercial version
I also did not get a clear answer.

I understand that the stain is heavy and may not be a priority
But again beware an unstable version of a program at any cost is not at all a good strategy ...

I am like Alan I made the decision to wait to update our licenses.
However, I plan to update one.
I just fear a big disappointment ...

But I must say that if we can be very forgiving about a beta if the commercial version still contains the bugs that we have identified, Autodessys will have to assume the reports insistent or public on the forum.

Let us understand what I say:
There is no threat or other stupidity ...
Simply do not be surprised then post like that of Anton who targets the problems of the program.

Again, I repeat, there is no one here with bad intentions:
only a small patient community and a small team of motivated developers.

Frankly more transparency in trade can only help ...

For the moment we have for our part concentrated our efforts to find a workflow between formz 6 (via FZ8) towards TWINMOTION which is an incredible software in full evolution ...

Autodessys you should really look closely at the evolution of real-time rendering software.

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

jldaureil 

Some interesting points there.

However, regarding Twin motion Quote: "Autodessys you should really look closely at the evolution of real-time rendering software."

I would say, all in good time, maybe as a bolt-on for those who need all the clever terrain and vegitation producing software. We don't all need those features. I still would like the focus to be for FormZ to first be excellent at what it does already so it can be marketed effectively for core strengths of being able to produce a 3d model with full information management in a free uncomplicated way (no constraints) faster than any other product, and also to be very affordable, which will attract more users with good marketing. Real-time enhancements may be good for the future but especially as the data can presumably be exported to a specialist program like TM, please continue to bring the user interface and core program features to perfection first.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

V9 is a huge improvement in my opinion in terms of stability and much needed.  It is much more "under the hood" improvements than fancy new tools, which I think was necessary.  Sometimes one needs to stop adding features and create a really stable product.  Especially in regards to the UI and Components.  Both of which are pretty fundamental.  While I know the UI isn't exactly what everyone wants (hard to find everyone in agreement on the look & feel of a UI), it is a vast improvement over v7 and v8 so far.  

Some improvements:  Improved and stable UI (almost!), Components (which were completely broken in v8), Reference files, Symmetry tools and workflow improvements like: the new Edit Options tool palette, reshape by dimension, light intensity sliders, etc.  I'm sure there are many more.

I have had some issues in v9 so far, but once these are ironed out I think FormZ will be positioned very well to move forward with a stable working environment.  Then new tools and features can come.

I too hope the scripting is the starting point for a Grasshopper like parametric interface (or something better).  Twinmotion and realtime rendering also seems essential in the future.

I don't use Draft mode so I can't comment there.  I only use Layout for DWG export and it works well.  Could be some improvements, but in general it has streamlined my workflow.  Not sure that is it's intended purpose, but it works for batch DWG output.  

In general FormZ's strength is it's speed and power in modeling in my opinion.  I would rather they work on improving modeling, further integration with rendering software options and on better and faster import/export to other programs than spend enormous resources trying to develop ways to draft, dimension, and note construction documents.  Plenty of other programs do that task well.  

I felt like with v7 and v8 I had a hard time recommending the program because of all the little "quirks"...UI and Components mostly.  Now once a few items are ironed out v9 seems like a great recommendation!  At least for the architectural world.  The Speed of SketchUp + Power of Rhino in one package.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

alan and asone and staff if you read me...

I know that few FormZ users use the drafting module.
I also know that the current debate among users revolves around the idea of permanently abandoning this module and inviting users to go to another software. (Others suggest that Autodessys sign an agreement with a third-party publisher)
But...
1- everything worked very well in version 6 (of course with the limits of the version of the time) We still use it today
2-the choice of autodessys is to reintroduce this module
"form • Z Draft Layout is a new app that combines the features of the classic form • Z Drafting environment (v6 and earlier) and the layout environment of form • Z 7/8. This includes the separate draft and layout spaces from v6 and the sheet management and dimension styles from v 7/8. "

For me it is an excellent decision.
But I think it is also a wise decision on the part of autodessys.
It's nice to say that formz is first and foremost a modeler, it's true!
But without the integrated tools to exploit the 3d model it is autistic software
Likewise, without the possibility of preparing and entering 2d vector data, the modeler is a blind tool.

For me logic can be schematized in the following way:

workflow.thumb.png.e9161f16addf47384509c0e61f1054cf.png

to note: Ideally the link between formZ 3D and Formz 2D should be perfectly bidirectional and updatable according to change made in 2d or 3D
This is the only function that I have really missed since always.
That is to be able to draw in 2D and insert this drawing on a plan in 3D (vector underlay) and update the link quickly ...
(I tried with the symbol in version 6, it almost works ...)
But it is also being able to produce a cut in 3D and recover the vector slice and the background (vector hiden line) in 2D to compose it with a rendering and enrich it with dimensioning and other ...
I do this manually in version 6
It would have to be automatic and updatable according to the evolution of the model ...

here
It's not complicated
ah ah ah

😁

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

×