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Decals are not rendered


AHDD Designer
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  • 3 years later...
3 hours ago, AHDD Designer said:

I was pleased to read that in Vray 5 decals are to be rendered.
Although I have activated the checkbox, no decal appears in the image.
The online manual has no corresponding entry.
Who can help me out?

MacOS Mojave

Please try the following:

-Disable Decals

-Click the Clean button in the VRay Settings palette

-Render (just enough to get it to start, you don't need to finish the rendering)

-Enable Decals

-Render

 

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Since I could not find any further information in the Vray 5 manual, I called up this Youtube video.
In it you can learn that it seems to be a Vray own decal tool and not this one from FormZ.

But where can I find this tool?
It is not in the Vray tool palette and I cannot find it in the tool manager.

Also, I would like to know how to access the Chaos Cosmos to download materials?


 

 

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You can load an image into the opacity area of your material to make an equivalent cut area around your logo or text to create a decal function.

----

The Chaos Cosmos objects are all implemented in different ways on each different 3d environment as far as I know -  for example both Maya and sketchup definitely have different ways to insert the chaos content. I have't yet seen an option anywhere for inserting the objects like a component or a proxy in FormZ VRay while running the beta.  They are usually in the VRay toolbar. So they may or may not be in the development future options for FormZ VRay.

The faq says...

Quote

 

What format are the Cosmos assets?
 

Each Chaos product imports Cosmos assets as best suits their users. In the case of 3ds Max and Maya, an imported Cosmos asset is a V-Ray Proxy object that uses native V-Ray materials. 

In SketchUp and Rhino, the Cosmos asset begins as a “black box” reference that can be merged to become a V-Ray Proxy for editing. In Revit, Cosmos assets import as lightweight native Revit families and can also be used to replace other objects. In Cinema 4D, a Cosmos asset imports as an "Object" with all materials applied. To import the full geometry in the scene, the Cosmos object needs to be made "editable". 

In Chaos Vantage, the Cosmos asset will be a reference that is always extracted from the local Cosmos repository.

 

 

 

https://www.chaosgroup.com/cosmos#faq

and the user guide says...

Quote

To open the Chaos Cosmos library, click on the Chaos Cosmos icon in the host platform you use. It can be found in the V-Ray toolbar. For more information regarding the available host platforms, see Chaos Cosmos in Host Platforms section below.

https://docs.chaos.com/display/COSMOS/Installing+and+Using+Chaos+Cosmos+Browser

Personally I'd like see access to the Chaos scans product in FormZ so we can get ready prepped high quality materials.  I'd be happy to add that to a formZ VRay sub. And I think that would be way easier to implement than inserting the cosmos objects.

https://www.chaosgroup.com/scans

Edited by nano
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On 11/22/2021 at 5:45 AM, nano said:

You can load an image into the opacity area of your material to make an equivalent cut area around your logo or text to create a decal function.

This explanation is not an answer to my question/problem.
I am talking about «decals» and not «materials with transparent parts».
How do you want to apply with your suggestion for example a colorful logo on a spherical, metallic surface?
Anyway, in the tutorial video of Chaosgroup this possibility is shown differently…

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On 11/22/2021 at 5:45 AM, nano said:

https://www.chaosgroup.com/cosmos#faq

and the user guide says...

Quote

To open the Chaos Cosmos library, click on the Chaos Cosmos icon in the host platform you use. It can be found in the V-Ray toolbar. For more information regarding the available host platforms, see Chaos Cosmos in Host Platforms section below.

https://docs.chaos.com/display/COSMOS/Installing+and+Using+Chaos+Cosmos+Browser

Personally I'd like see access to the Chaos scans product in FormZ so we can get ready prepped high quality materials.  I'd be happy to add that to a formZ VRay sub. And I think that would be way easier to implement than inserting the cosmos objects.

https://www.chaosgroup.com/scans

 

 

Hu... I understand unfortunately nothing at all.
In the YouTube clip it is shown differently - much simpler...!

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  • 2 weeks later...
On 11/23/2021 at 1:44 AM, AHDD Designer said:

This explanation is not an answer to my question/problem.
I am talking about «decals» and not «materials with transparent parts».
How do you want to apply with your suggestion for example a colorful logo on a spherical, metallic surface?
Anyway, in the tutorial video of Chaosgroup this possibility is shown differently…

 

Hello,

If you offset and trim a surface slightly above your object, you can use a PNG transparency map to achieve a nice Decal look, even with a logo on a spherical, metallic surface:

image.thumb.png.0902d24ae4d677774728c7138eee3d1c.png

image.thumb.png.df88fae42692b301f86557bdb489ec56.png

 

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I think some users get enamored with certain features from Renderzone, and want other renderers to have the same exact feature. I think the takeaway is to understand how the tool works, and what it does exactly, and get the same results from other tools. I use billboard tool all the time to get this decal effect. It works great on flat surfaces. But if your surface isn't flat, then you can simply follow Justin's steps.

You can offset a very small distance, and even turn off the shadows on the object properties, so that it looks like something was painted on wall, for instance, if that's what you're after.

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12 hours ago, allanjl said:

I think some users get enamored with certain features from Renderzone, and want other renderers to have the same exact feature. I think the takeaway is to understand how the tool works, and what it does exactly, and get the same results from other tools. I use billboard tool all the time to get this decal effect. It works great on flat surfaces. But if your surface isn't flat, then you can simply follow Justin's steps.

You can offset a very small distance, and even turn off the shadows on the object properties, so that it looks like something was painted on wall, for instance, if that's what you're after.

Actually, I think some people just want formZ to do what it says on the label ....

Quote

V-Ray 5 for form•Z is a major update to V-Ray 3 for form•Z. This double update includes all of the features of V-Ray 4 (aka V-Ray Next) and the features of V-Ray 5. In addition to significant improvements in performance, this version includes: an improved Frame Buffer; Light Mix post rendering lighting adjustments; support for nVidia RTX hardware raytracing; Adaptive Dome Light; improved material editing; enhanced settings palette; and support for decals.

Notice, the last 4 words? ... offsetting an object with an applied transparency...is not support for decals. Or am I missing something? ...I have NOT updated to formZ 9 yet. I will certainly not be updating to V-Ray 5 ...If it's still lacking what the PR states it has ... Is decal support working?? ..No work around... Does it work?

Some clarity, would be nice before I splurge on double the cost of a formZ update... for a V-Ray 'update'

All the best.

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Yes, Decals should be working in V-Ray 5 for FormZ. I'm sure they are working on getting it fixed as it was working in a previous build. V-Ray 5 is a substantial upgrade and worth every penny even without Decals IMHO. 

I was merely providing an alternative to Decals that is easier to use since Shaded display modes will also show it.  I use Shaded Full a lot in my work, sometimes as conceptual development before moving to full V-Ray renderings and have been frustrated by Decals lack of Shaded (OpenGL) support.  This alternative allows both Shaded Full and V-Ray to be used on the same project with logos applied to various objects.

It's nice to have options isn't it?

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16 hours ago, allanjl said:

Martin. We are just trying to find an alternate solution to your problem and at the same time also showing some insight. But if this is not what you want, then try contacting support directly.

My problem? ... I already know the solution offered in this thread, as I'm sure most users do. Whilst workarounds are good... The question is, are they or should they be a necessity? ..(For support that is offered as a 'new' option in an 'update')...So, the only reasoned response.. would be. Vray 5 decals support works straight out the box... Or, it doesn't?

Still no clarification, other than 'should be working' ;) 

All the best

Edited by Martin Malinski
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  • 2 weeks later...
On 12/15/2021 at 7:43 AM, AHDD Designer said:

Is there any official response to this problem...?
I simply want to place decals as shown in this YouTube video.
I still have the question of how to get into the «Cosmos»?
 

 

Hi Theo,

While I cannot answer for Tech, I can tell you that Decals were working when I tested them originally, and due to a new bug, are currently not working.  I'm sure a fix is coming soon.  

You will need to use the Decal tool included in FormZ here, not the VRay Decal tool, which is part of the VRay Asset system FormZ does not yet have SDK access to since it is developed by ADS and not Chaos like the SketchUp example. 

That's a bit of a double edged sword.  On one side, we have a much more integrated VRay plugin that works more seamlessly in FormZ, where our lights and materials automatically translate between native app and VRay.  Other applications like VRay for Rhino, do not do this and have to be converted.  It also means we have a built in VRay material editor that works well with other FormZ rendering modes, something missing in those other VRay plugins.  In my experience, having used both for projects, the integrated FormZ version is easier and quicker to work with when using multiple rendering methods (Shaded Full for early concepts and VRAY for refined concepts).

On the other side of the sword, we 'CURRENTLY' do not have access to the typical VRay Asset manager that you see referenced in these VRay videos.  It's a Chaos Group issue and it's not available in the SDK for ADS to implement yet.  That means we are currently missing a couple of things like Chaos Cosmos, and Chaos Cloud.  

If you want to use the Chaos Cosmos, you'll need a separate VRay license for one of the other VRay products like Vantage, SketchUp, Rhino, 3DS, C4D.   Then you can export your FormZ scene as a .VRSCENE file from FormZ and bring it into the other VRay install and use Cosmos there.  A little round about?  I suppose, but It's about the same as using the Datasmith export method to bring FormZ projects into Twinmotion.   

Hope this helps to clarify some expectations while we wait for Tech.

Cheers!

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Hello Justin
Thank you for your very detailed and explanatory post.
I can understand this statement and will be patient while waiting for a possible further development.
It's a bit of a downer that I apparently often work with a tool where much is different, i.e. «more complicated», than expected....
But yes: Seen over time, development steps can already be detected.
The direct export to Twinmotion is very interesting in any case.
Many greetings from Switzerland, Theo.

Edited by AHDD Designer
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