rmulley Posted March 26, 2015 Share Posted March 26, 2015 I've recently transitioned into FormZ 7 and have got my head around the differences enough to use it for work. One problem I am having is if I go in close to move something very slightly it seems to jump around on an imaginary grid and angle snap.... both of which I have turned off. It steps around in 1/16" increments, but I want to move it much less than that. What am I'm doing wrong ? It's driving me nuts! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tech Posted March 26, 2015 Share Posted March 26, 2015 Hi Richard, The Unit Accuracy is an inherent grid snap. You can change this via the File Menu: Project Settings: Working Units. NOTE that if you are working on objects smaller than buildings, you should first change the Data Scale to an appropriate scale (perhaps Small instead of Medium). Then you can adjust things as you would like... As far as getting up to speed with formZ 7 or 8, if you haven't completely reviewed the formZ 7 / 8 Migration Guide thread, we would highly recommend it: formZ v7 / 8 Migration Guide (Interface Improvements from formZ 6) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DMclean Posted March 26, 2015 Share Posted March 26, 2015 Mulley, Scratched my head over this one myself for a while. You probably have the precision of units set to 1/16" in Project Settings-Working Units-Numeric. I think (and Tech can let you know if this is right) that is the default, and that is what formZ will take as its minimum movement. It's not really a snap, just the minimum amount of movement that it can see and react to, hence it will not be affected when you turn off the snap to grid options. I'm guessing the Angular options will do the same though I haven't tested that. Enjoy formZ, it's great, Doug I see Tech just posted pretty much the same answer while I was writing this... That's one of the other things I think you'll like about Z... great support for this forum... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rmulley Posted March 26, 2015 Author Share Posted March 26, 2015 Hhhmmm, now this wasn't the case in FormZ 6.7 I assume ? Would be nice to have "free movement" if you just want to place something slightly apart but smaller than 1/16" without having to go in and change the project settings. Seems a bit odd to me. I typically work somewhere between a building and a lamp but use the 1/16" tolerance.... however, from time to time when modelling a detail in a bigger scene I work a bit smaller.... like making a model of say a phone (not super accurate) and placing it into a display.... going between 2 scales like this in one file shouldn't be an issue! A lot of my work is purely speculative so I don't spend hours getting everything super accurate, I do a lot of eyeballing.... when I can't line 2 things up quickly with a small gap between them it's really slowing me down Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tech Posted March 26, 2015 Share Posted March 26, 2015 Hi Richard, In most cases it is desirable to align things properly, but if you want a finer control, just set a smaller unit accuracy. There should be nothing about this slowing you down -- other than choosing the right data scale in the first place, which only takes a second. If you have old projects with already mis-aligned objects, then I can understand your question, but for new projects going forward, I would highly recommend trying to align parts properly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rmulley Posted March 27, 2015 Author Share Posted March 27, 2015 So here's the thing... if I turn Guide Snap on I can move an object along those axis freely. However if I turn it off I can then only move in increments set by the project scale. Seems a little odd to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Exocubic Posted March 27, 2015 Share Posted March 27, 2015 When a user specifically calls on the software to disable snapping and yet snapping still happens, you have a recipe for confusion. It is counter-intuitive and utterly non-discoverable (as evinced by rmulley's question). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tech Posted March 27, 2015 Share Posted March 27, 2015 Hi Exocubic, In older versions of formZ where this "feature" did not exist, we received lots of files from users where they were having trouble with Boolean or other operations because they had slightly misaligned their objects, or just slightly moved parts of the objects, creating subtle nonplanar surfaces, and other problems. Since this has been implemented, the quantity of those files / issues has dramatically decreased. Most often when a user complains about this, they are using the default Building scale, when they should be working with a smaller Data Scale, so answering this question also gets them using the proper data scale. It may be a little confusing at times, but the end result is better, cleaner files. Given all that, do you really think we should change this? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Exocubic Posted March 27, 2015 Share Posted March 27, 2015 I'm not sure what the answer is. Reducing your support burden is a good thing, but doing so through illogical means undermines the perceived rationality of how the software functions. I've not actually experienced this problem, since you guys taught met early on to use the proper data scale. I defer to your judgment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tech Posted March 27, 2015 Share Posted March 27, 2015 Hi Exocubic, It is less about reducing a support burden than it is helping users quickly create quality geometry that is problem free. That is our goal, and this "minimal snap = Unit Accuracy" seems to make clean geometry easier in general... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bo Atkinson Posted March 28, 2015 Share Posted March 28, 2015 We love computer accuracy until it slows down accepted human routines. Humans normally do very well with fuzzy logic or larger rounding off values. Math routines always employ rounding off at some level. The computer is supposed to calculate countless, infinitesimal levels while displaying summarized simplifications for human convenience. Version 7&8 added a new routine for me. I tend to add two zeros after the decimal point in Numeric Accuracy.... But this increases the need to toggle settings back to a "legible increment". Computation needs high numeric accuracy. However, work flows suffer from fastidious increments (which are never verbalized in human life). Increased accuracy is much harder to read in the interface boxes, (x,y,z values). Rounding off decimals or fractions is needed when using Dimension Tools, (as for physical work plans or conceptual drawings). Sorry to say this, but the value-displays, (in the interface) ought to allow user-preferance, for rounding off values. Perhaps each numeric box of the interface, deserves a drop down list, to set current value of rounding off. The display of dimensions values becomes useless with high accuracy values. We have always been told that our geometry tools are accurate, but we don't need infinitesimal details of countless values, of models. The boolean and other fussy operations may need longer explanations given when errors of alignment is detected. It is a generic problem ^__^ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bo Atkinson Posted March 28, 2015 Share Posted March 28, 2015 On further thought, rounding-off-preferences, if made available to users.... For the x,y,z value display, when user increases rounding-off-values, the interface could read "10.X " , instead of the actual "10.0160". Also, up to this point, there has been difficulty, in quickly adding dimensions to a crowded drawing, (with too many presets to adjust). User wants "10" to appear on the output image or drawing (and not "10.0160"). The interface dialog could have the rounded-off-value entered and indicated there in the dialog. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rob Posted March 28, 2015 Share Posted March 28, 2015 Bo, I am not sure what all your words mean but you can just set the desired Dimension accuracy in the Dimension Styles: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bo Atkinson Posted March 29, 2015 Share Posted March 29, 2015 Rob, This thread began with: "….go in close to move something very slightly it seems to jump around on an imaginary grid and angle snap…." (quoting first post) Zoom in close enough and this behavior can be observed. A user might want freedom to position the click-result exactly where the cursor is positioned. Currently, formZ will instead snap the result according to a virtual grid based on Numeric Accuracy, (setting by user or default setting). My preference is the old fashioned, freer-hand-positioning, (unless i choose a user invoked snapping). It is indeed difficult to appreciate this issue, unless one zooms a lot while modeling, all at the same time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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