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AHTOH

These guys consider themselves the future of CAD

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I'm with Bernd on this, it looks like another rental scheme, that you need to run from the internet in order to work. Someone on another forum, who tried it, pointed out:

 

professional $100/month = $1200/year, year after year. And that the current tools were very limited, no loft tool for example.

 

At some point, if they are successful, they'll catch up in the tool department. The videos look interesting.

 

But I would never want to rent any software that I depend upon. Maybe in a corporate environment where someone else is paying the bill. After Adobe took this approach with Photoshop, they lost me as a customer for life.

 

After awhile, you are like a drug addict depending on the company to get anything done. And after they "hook" you, they have less and less reason to improve the software. Or they sell the company and the new management decides to milk the cash cow while putting little back in ongoing product development. If you buy instead of rent software, the company wants to keep making it better and better in order for you to buy an upgrade, and increase the user base, it's good for them and good for you. The rental business model, after a certain point, does not foster innovation.

 

Plus they can change the monthly cost at any time.

 

Just my 2 cents...

 

 

 

Edited by RobertH

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The quickest and safest way to get me out of anything? Put the buzzword "cloud" on the package ;)

What, you don't think reliance on an internet connection, someone else's storage, and a fee based service is the way to go?

 

Looks decent in their videos, but there have been a lot of other (now dead) programs that considered themselves the "future" of CAD.

 

Some of the interface features are pretty cool though -- I am sure ADS is paying attention (right ADS?)

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What, you don't think reliance on an internet connection, someone else's storage, and a fee based service is the way to go?

 

 

Your picture of the drug addict pretty much nails it. I've "frozen" the status on most of the computers here in the office, ALL of them running permanent licenses of the Adobe CreativeSuite and other software. I've been self employed for about 22 years now, starting as a one-man show, running a small business with several employees now. I know and have experienced that there can be periods where running monthly costs can almost "break your neck". Under normal circumstances, this means no money and more work for a certain duration. But if this happens with a software subscription model, they'll take your tools after the first unpaid month. Means: bankrupt within four weeks, because you can't work any longer. There is NO WAY I will ever depend on such a model. Most people today underestimate the costs and the risk.

 

Oh, and regarding the Creative Suite: they've stopped adding features I need with CS4. However, I do have boxed permanent licenses up to CS6. I can live with that for a couple of years :)

 

Bernd

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I've been a long-time user (20+years) of Adobe creative software. I use it every single day. While yes, you could just buy a copy and keep it for years and years, it's lilkely the costs catch up when you finally upgrade. They would for me. 

 

If you don't need new features, great, but the costs work out to be about the same for me, with the added benefit of the cloud features. File and font synchronization itself is fantastic. Beyond that, if someone in publishing decides for some crazy reason they want to publish increasingly capable electronic media, e.g. by building Acrobat forms WITHIN InDesign, there are no alternatives nearly as seamless.

 

As soon as Adobe announced CC I invested in the product and the stock. 

 

Don't like cloud?

 

Please, fax me the reasons....   ;)

 

As far as onshape goes, I don't see anything compelling, but I'm not a power user. I'll likely try it out for fun.

 

Andrew

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As soon as Adobe announced CC I invested in the product and the stock. 

 

Don't like cloud?

 

Please, fax me the reasons....   ;)

 

No need to convince you of anything, I just have a different opinion. Investing in the stock most likely was a good idea, since any subscription model is made especially for business and shareholders, not the users.

 

I'd support or accept any voluntary subscription model that means "upgrades as long as you pay". I just won't do that for a subscription model that means "your software and font licenses expire as soon as you cancel subscription". On that day my cool and flashy Muse made website will appear in Times Roman, because my Typekit license is revoked. Sh## happens… ;)

 

Bernd

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Hi Bernd!

 

Actually I stand corrected - I originally invested in Adobe in 2008. I was just pleased (as a shareholder and a pro user) at the announcement of Cloud. Not at first as a user, mind you - but when I did the math, for me, it worked out.

 

It's certainly not the best way to go for anyone who doesn't depend on it in a way that will require the full/increasing range of tools. Since graphic design/publishing/web is what I do, it's pretty useful, and their companion apps on smartphone do some pretty cool things.

 

That said, I do like owning my own copies of things where it makes sense, and upgrading at my own pace... for example, with 3D stuff!

 

Some companies have gotten greedy over the years, though, such as e-on (of Vue fame) - originally it was inexpensive, relatively, even as they added features. Once pros started using it, the costs ramped up quickly and their upgrade policy became prohibitive for hobbyists.

 

I do think onshape looks interesting and signed up for the beta, as it seems that for hobbyist use it's not dumbed down.

 

Andrew

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Andrew,

 

I'm well aware of a target group of people (and you belong to it) who really need to stay current with the feature set, supporting web 2.0 to 4.97 [mobile/facebook bio interface]. The cloud is made for you ;)

 

I'm representing a different, maybe (in the long run) dying group. Our products still are PDFs mostly done in printable layouts (I'm writing user's manuals). I have customers who have QM systems prescribing certain versions of software, in order to guarantee working print output etc. Regarding such tasks, an example for a useful (!) upgrade making me happily pay for it would be a working cross reference technology. Well, InDesign still doesn't have such a thing, I'm using 3rd party plugins for that. So what of the typical CS toolset Illustrator/Photoshop/Indesign/Acrobat came after CS4 that I might want? They even KILLED content (Acrobat 3D anybody?) I was happy to have!

 

So… no subscription for me, paying things I don't want.

 

Bernd

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I'm not convinced 'on shape' is the product for me - I would have to look into it further and try demos etc.

 

I too am very much against the 'subscription/cloud' model, I reluctantly jumped aboard with Adobe CS suite. It is handy to be able to try out the other products without time restraints and watermarks etc. But it's currently telling me I have 2 updates to download  - after looking at it, the updated features are of no relevance to me so I won't be doing it until I have time.

 

I doubt I would sign up to any other software on a monthly subscription basis. I was a approached by a vector works dealer a couple of years ago and it just didn't do it for me. I stuck with the version I had. I wouldn't want to subscribe to FormZ either. It's great if for hardcore CS users (graphics guys etc.), but it's not the solution for everyone.

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Sorry AHTOH,

 

I agree with others here. I would not subscribe to tools and actually found the old dongle more friendly to use, with less down time. I prefer the cloud-free approach to life in general. Clouds are light years distant from some sort of panacea and free societies. Our world is still too confused and unfriendly. There is much more to this than old guys resisting new changes. There is more than privacy involved. I love the open source ethos but the higher level commerce will not let go of propriety, trade secrets, hacking of competitor, stealing tech, etc… This trickles down to unimportant people like me who get targeted for some unverifiable reason.

 

The cloud concept feels  opposed to natural, organic evolution.  It sounds like another step, by artificial intelligence, taking over humanity…. There are publicly published initiatives for people to "upload" their brain or soul into a computer-  Let the human body die as phased out tech?  The chief engineer of Google seems to advocate this line of thinking. Hmm… Immortality through the cloud? No thanks, i doubt this can humanly work.

 

Full control of an isolated computer, off line, remains important for me.  I have seen too many actual interruptions of my work flow, from the internet.  Up-to-date OS still has it's own malfunctions. One or more of my formZ commands (through personal short cuts) will occasionally open up my browser, (wanting to go somewhere). That machine is off line and so it stops there. Too much effort needed to test it out fully.  I think it is just an OS leak, perhaps with something like a parasite latched on. Reboot restores normal operations. Re-install of OS does not fix it (OSX 10.9.5  2012 MacproTower). Years of maintenance tools and virus tools never helped me either.

 

Keep it simple….    ^__^

 

 

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