Crashing and Bugs

[RobertH]

I've only been using formZ for a short time but I really love it, and has become my goto 3D app. I've discovered some bugs and crashes:

1. Excessive ghosting, then saving, causes formZ to crash (10 ghosts causes this consistently for me). Steps to re-create:
  a ) Make 10 intersecting/overlapping Spheres (Generate > Sphere).
  b ) Select them all.
  c ) Boolean Union them. This creates 10 ghosts and 1 new object.
  d ) Save project.
  e ) Either a Yes or No answer to the "Excessive Ghosting" dialog, causes formZ to stop working.
Lost a lot of work to this bug.

2. New workspaces are un-stable. When saving a new workspace, everything moves around during the saving process, and then UI items do not return to their previous position after the save is complete. Sometimes the positions are a little off, other times way off. In addition, opening formZ often does not return UI elements to the exact same place of a saved workspace. Every time I fire up formZ there are 3 or 4 adjustments to the UI that have to be made.

NOTE: I have a high resolution monitor (32" @ 2560 x 1440) and have to set the Windows 8.1 screen scaling factor to 150% (Control Panel\All Control Panel Items\Display), in order to be able to read the text and UI elements of most programs, otherwise they are way too small to see at the 100% default display resolution on this monitor. This may contribute to this problem and may be worth a look if you can't recreate the issue.

3. Using a SpaceNavigator and orbiting over the exact top or bottom of a model causes the display to "twitch" (rapidly rotating the model 360 degrees). This consistently happens for every project and is very disorienting. This occured with another 3D program but was fixed with an update to that program after user complaints (was not a 3Dconnexion driver issue).

4. The cursor is almost invisible in the empty areas of the design window. Can we have an option to use the regular cursor (that is displayed over the palettes) in these areas?

5. Minor bug. A projects' change status occurs when no modifications have been made. Example: create a new project and zoom with the mouse scroll wheel or a SpaceNavigator. Note the "*" next to the filename turns on, although no actual changes have been made. Now the project can be saved, when no changes have happened. This also occurs when resizing the design window. It would be nice if the file change indicator accurately reflects an actual file change.

6. Minor: In the Tool Manager, when hovering over a tool icon the cursor obscures part of the tool tip.  Can the tool tip text be lowered a bit? (Maybe related to the Note in item 2 above).

 

7. In the Favorite Tools screen can a tool tip and tool label be added as an option? formZ has some of the best, most descriptive icons of any program I have, but until you become familiar with them, a little helpful tip would be nice.

 

Also, what does that tool at the bottom of the default favorites screen do, the one that has the grid with 8 red points on it?
 

 

Thanks!


formZ Pro 8.0.2
Windows 8.1, 64 bit; Intel i7-4770 @ 3.4GHz; 16GB RAM
32" monitor @ 2560 x 1440 resolution; nVida GTX 970 4GB
3Dconnexion SpaceNavigator
 

[Tech]

Hi Robert,

 

Welcome to the forum, and glad you are liking formZ!

 

1.  This bug should have been fixed.  If you download a fresh copy of formZ from here, does that fix it for you?

 

www.formz.com/update

 

If not, if you go to the File Menu: Project Settings: Project Files and turn off the Warn option, that will allow you to avoid this.  NOTE that this setting is Per Project, so you will need adjust this for each of your existing projects (if you have not done so already).  You can also save this setting in your Template file (if you use one) or in your Preferences: Project Files to automatically set this option for any New Projects.

 

We will investigate your other issues and report back, but does this help with this issue?

[RobertH]

Thanks for your reply Tech!

 

OK, I did the update but got an "Access Violation" and a "This Trial copy has expired" messages. The build numbers were the same on my old version and the new downloaded version from the link above. Did a file compare and saw that the license file was missing from the new download, so I copied it over from my old install.

 

This did not fix the problem, but got the new downloaded version to start. Again the build numbers we the same for both install versions.

 

Turned off the warning message in the File > Project preference section, that you suggested, and that indeed made it work, because I did not get the warning dialog. So thanks for that!

 

Of course that does not fix the problem with the warning code on your end. Does my scenario fail on your system?

 

Again thanks for your help! I know the workaround to get it to work here...

[Tech]

Hi Robert,

 

This was a known issue that is showing as fixed on all of our computers.  I believe we did have one other report from a user whereby they needed to turn off that warning to avoid the issue on their computer, but we checked again and it is working fine here.  I wonder what could be causing that issue for you.

 

2.  We are not reproducing this yet but we will keep testing.

 

3.  Yes, thanks for your report, we will get this corrected.

 

4.  We are not seeing this.  Do you have the latest video driver installed, and if not, does updating that help?  If not, are you using a custom background color -- and if so, can you send us an empty file so we can test with that here?

 

5.  The size of the window and the view is saved with the file, so this is indeed logged as a change and is as expected.

 

6.  Yes, we can reproduce this -- the tip should be offset a bit more from the cursor.

 

7.  I suppose tips could be added there too -- but if they are your favorite tools, do you not know what they are?  (Yes, we do see how this could be helpful starting out...)

 

Glad you are able to work around issue #1 now -- we will keep investigating this to see if we can find out why this could still occur on your computer!

[RobertH]

Thanks so much for your reply and future fixes!  Here are my responses to some of your questions / recommendations.

 

2. New workspaces are un-stable. When saving a new workspace, everything moves around during the saving process, and then UI items do not return to their previous position after the save is complete. Sometimes the positions are a little off, other times way off. In addition, opening formZ often does not return UI elements to the exact same place of a saved workspace. Every time I fire up formZ there are 3 or 4 adjustments to the UI that have to be made.

NOTE: I have a high resolution monitor (32" @ 2560 x 1440) and have to set the Windows 8.1 screen scaling factor to 150% (Control Panel\All Control Panel Items\Display), in order to be able to read the text and UI elements of most programs, otherwise they are way too small to see at the 100% default display resolution on this monitor. This may contribute to this problem and may be worth a look if you can't recreate the issue.

 

2.  We are not reproducing this yet but we will keep testing.

 

I think this may be related to the windows scaling factor. I've seen this in other programs where the app just looks at the screen resolution when positioning UI elements and does not pay attention to the windows scaling factor. Or maybe it is just not storing the positions accurately.

 

To set or change the windows scaling factor:

1. right click on the desktop
2. select Screen Resolution
3. choose "Make text and other items larger or smaller"
4. choose "Change the size of all items" to Larger-150%
5. check option "let me choose one scaling level for all my displays"
6. finally change some of the text size items for various desktop elements

In an effort to make workspaces more stable, I unchecked the "Save Between Sessions" option in the Workspace Manager, and discovered another minor bug. With this option unchecked no new workspaces are created. The new workspace appears on the menu of workspaces during the current session, but the next time formZ is fired up, the new workspace is gone. Going to the disk area where workspaces are stored confirms this. However because all the workspaces are not updated every time formZ is shut down, the continually creeping displacement / instability of all the workspaces is halted, though not fixed by any means.

 

What I would like to be able to do, is arrange the UI exactly how I want, create a new workspace, then have formZ always return to that configuration. It has never happened. The very act of workspace creation moves UI elements around on my system.

 

Still the best solution to this, is my request, in another post, to get rid of floating tool and palette docks, along with the document window and make them part of the main application window. Or at the very least, be able to maximize the document window, so it becomes part of the application window.

 

4. The cursor is almost invisible in the empty areas of the design window. Can we have an option to use the regular cursor (that is displayed over the palettes) in these areas?

 

4.  We are not seeing this.  Do you have the latest video driver installed, and if not, does updating that help?  If not, are you using a custom background color -- and if so, can you send us an empty file so we can test with that here?

 

I do have the latest video driver installed, and I am using the default background color. Trying out different backgrounds, black gives the greatest contrast, however I do not like working on black. The main problem is the high resolution of my monitor (2560x1440) makes the cursor on document window nearly invisible, because it is too small. The cursor on the palettes and menu area is fine, but this is controlled by the windows 8.1 cursor selection, so there is some options outside of formZ for the user to control it. Since the cost of larger high resolution monitors keeps going down and become more widely available, I'm sure that more and more of your customers will run into this problem. My request is to make the document window cursor 3 times as large, as an option of course, or to optionally use the same cursor that is used in the palette areas.

 

6. Minor: In the Tool Manager, when hovering over a tool icon the cursor obscures part of the tool tip.  Can the tool tip text be lowered a bit? (Maybe related to the Note in item 2 above, ie high resolution monitor).

 

6.  Yes, we can reproduce this -- the tip should be offset a bit more from the cursor.

 

 

Thanks. What is currently happening is the cursor obscures the tool tip, so I can't make it out, and when I move it over a bit to read, the tip disappears, so I'm going back and forth 3 or 4 times to read the tips of some tools.

 

7. In the Favorite Tools screen can a tool tip and tool label be added as an option? formZ has some of the best, most descriptive icons of any program I have, but until you become familiar with them, a little helpful tip would be nice.

 

7.  I suppose tips could be added there too -- but if they are your favorite tools, do you not know what they are?  (Yes, we do see how this could be helpful starting out...)

 

Yes it is helpful when starting out, and as a memory jog. Most icons are very obvious but not all. I find myself throwing tools on the favorite screen if I use them more than a few times, so this screen becomes very dynamic. If the label disrupts the current screen layout too much, a tool tip, after a suitable hover delay, would be fine, along with an option to turn it off.

 

Also, what does that tool at the bottom of the default favorites screen do, the one that has the grid with 8 red points on it?

 

You overlooked this question. I still haven't been able to figure out what this tool does. I looked through all of the tools in the Tool Manager, along with pulling up the HUD and using all the A-Z keys and have not seen it used there. I tried selecting it when doing various tasks, but no joy. What is it?

 

 

Thanks again for a truly great product and fine support!

 

formZ Pro 8.0.2

Windows 8.1, 64 bit; Intel i7-4770 @ 3.4GHz; 16GB RAM

32" monitor @ 2560 x 1440 resolution; nVida GTX 970 4GB

3Dconnexion SpaceNavigator

[Tech]

Hi Robert,

 

2.  The scaling sounds like a reasonable idea, but we are still not reproducing this.  We will test with additional computers and configurations to see if we can reproduce this.

 

If you uncheck the Save Between Sessions, then it is expected that any changes made would be gone after you restart.  If you can leave the Save Between Sessions on one time, make the desired changes, restart, and then uncheck this (and restart once more), then it will save the current state.

 

4.  The cursor is controlled by the OS — if you set your Mouse: Precision Cursor to something larger, does that help?  Or does using the formZ Window Menu: Extended Cursor (perhaps in conjunction with custom options = ~10 pixels) help?

 

8.  The Grid with the red dots (in the Favorites) is the Grid Snap toggle.

[RobertH]

Thanks Tech!

 

2.  The scaling sounds like a reasonable idea, but we are still not reproducing this.  We will test with additional computers and configurations to see if we can reproduce this.

 

 

Just to make it clear for me, when a new workspace is saved on your Windows PC machines, are the element positions for:

a ) the Document window 

b ) the Palette Dock 

c ) the Tool Dock 

d ) the Modeling Tools 

e ) all the positions, number and collapsed states of palettes within the Palette Dock...

 

1. In the exact same position before and after a new workspace is created?

2. Do they move during the save/create event?

3. That the position of these elements is exactly the same before formZ is closed and right after formZ is reopened?

4. Remain unchanged during subsequent openings and closings of formZ (unless they are moved by the user of course)?

5. That no adjustments due to element "drifting" has to happen?

6. That no user toolbars get chopped off, obscuring icons, at the end of the toolbar randomly, during opening of formZ or switching a workspace?

7. That the Palette Dock does not grow beyond the bottom of the monitor, without user intervention?

8. Changing the workspace, or on start-up the UI sometimes explodes (3-4 times now)... some palettes are missing from the Palette Dock and/or randomly located on document window; the Tool Dock is empty or partially populated and relocated?

 

Just want to make sure we are on the same page here.

 

If you uncheck the Save Between Sessions, then it is expected that any changes made would be gone after you restart.  If you can leave the Save Between Sessions on one time, make the desired changes, restart, and then uncheck this (and restart once more), then it will save the current state.

This is really minor, it just seems that if you create a new workspace even if "Save Between Sessions" is off, you'd want to keep that workspace when you close formZ, or else why create it in the first place. Just not update it after reopening the app. Again no big deal, just a different design philosophy... I can work around this now after I discovered what's happening.

 

As an aside, the reason I'm creating so many workspaces is that I know what I want, (though this will change over time and with different projects) I just can't get a workspace to stably stick.

 

4.  The cursor is controlled by the OS — if you set your Mouse: Precision Cursor to something larger, does that help?  Or does using the formZ Window Menu: Extended Cursor (perhaps in conjunction with custom options = ~10 pixels) help?

The Menu > Extended Cursor in formZ has a major problem, it updates very slowly, making it quite literally a drag to use, pun intended.

 

The standard "Normal Select" pointer is controlled by Mouse Properties in Windows, and changing it there changes it in formZ... great! This is the cursor that appears over the menu and palettes.

 

The "Precision Select" pointer that appears in the document window is not controlled there, however. Changing it has no effect in formZ. I traced its location within the Windows Registry. Changing it in Mouse Properties updates it in the Registry, just like the "Normal Select" pointer is also updated there. But it is not used by formZ. It's always the same small cross hair pointer, regardless of what pointer you select, or how large it is.

 

Another indication that formZ controls this cursor is that it changes depending on what tool is used, it's mode and it's position over the model or empty space. The Pick Tool is a cross hair over empty space, a cross hair with a round green plus sign over a non-selected model and a cross hair with a round red minus sign over a selected model. It's a black arrow with a small rectangle for the Pick Area Tool... etc.

 

When I selected a large cross hair pointer in Mouse Properties and compared it to the current cursor, it was about 4X larger than the current one (twice as high, twice as wide and twice as thick). That would be perfect...

 

8.  The Grid with the red dots (in the Favorites) is the Grid Snap toggle.

Cool... Thanks!

 

 

formZ Pro 8.0.2

Windows 8.1, 64 bit; Intel i7-4770 @ 3.4GHz; 16GB RAM

32" monitor @ 2560 x 1440 resolution; nVida GTX 970 4GB

3Dconnexion SpaceNavigator

 

[Tech]

Hi Robert,

 

2.   Yes, we are checking for all that but are not reproducing what you report (and your overall descriptions are quite clear).  Can you please email us some before and after screen captures of what you describe so we can try to more closely replicate your experience?

 

4.  Oops, I suppose we should have tried this before replying to this one.  Yes, we did make changes to the way the cursor is handled recently, so those are custom cursors instead of system cursors.  We will see if this can be customized in the future.  We also found a case where the Extended Cursor can slow down, so thanks for bringing this to our attention, we will get this corrected.

[RobertH]

Thanks Tech!

 

I'll send you some screen shots of the workspace problem.

 

The Extended Cursor is not a good option, because you loose the additional information (red minus circle, green plus circle, etc) that the regular pointers provide.

 

For the cursors, the best solution would be to expose the "Precision Select" pointer as with the "Normal Select" pointer through the Windows Mouse Properties dialog (only if you can append the additional tool specific icons to it), or read them in from disk, so that they could be updated by the user, giving the most flexibility. And lastly to pick from a couple of sizes in options ie: Regular, Large, Huge...

 

Thanks!

[3dworks]

about point 2: i'm having issues with needing to manually adjust my UI since long time. have reported in mail and here. on mac here, so i guess it's not a windows issue. this annoying bug is still active in latest version, this has also been confirmed by other users. see here:

 

http://forums.formz.com/index.php?/topic/1935formZ-802-update-now-available/?=3918

 

and next post.

 

cheers

 

markus

 

 

[Tech]

Hi Robert,

 

Thanks for sending your screen captures, and sorry for the delay in responding.  For the most part setting up your workspace worked fine, but we did reproduce something similar to what you show when Reloading Workspaces, and have documented it so it can be corrected.  Thanks again for sending your screen captures and bringing this to our attention.

 

Markus,

 

We did some more experimentation on Mac and found that we could cause extra spacing to appear in the Tool Dock after closing Tool Palettes that were closed WHILE they were in the Tool Dock.  If you have a palette that you don't want there, if you remove it from the Tool Dock FIRST -- and then close it, then it should behave properly.

 

Does that help?

[RobertH]

Thanks so much Tech!

 

I would still like to know when a new workspace is created on your Windows PC does everything jump around on the screen, or is everything just static?

[Tech]

Hi Robert,

 

Normally there is no jumping, but we have seen an isolated case where this does occur, and we are investigating that...

[RobertH]

Thanks so much Tech!