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¢hris £und

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  1. Like
    ¢hris £und reacted to skybound13 in Tutorials??   
    Chris,
    Sounds like you have truly taken “work smarter, not harder” to heart!  If you’re looking for practice making tutorial videos maybe you could do something about scripting for more advanced users?  Could even be a video with your top five favorite scripts if you want to keep it light.
  2. Like
    ¢hris £und got a reaction from graham_g in Tutorials??   
    FZnoob, skybound13,
    These are close to a year old now but may help.   I apologies that my presentation skills suck.
     
    The final video above was using the techniques formed from the previous videos to build a coke bottle.
    Here is a different method to build the same coke bottle.   While this method is far less fluid than the SDS method above, it is also technically far more exacting.  I think I must have just posted this in the discussion that prompted me to make the tutorials and didn't create a separate tutorial thread for it.
    https://youtu.be/b44MU13JsX4
     
    I will try to get less sucky at making tutorials... but that is a skill unto its own.
     
    ¢£
  3. Like
    ¢hris £und got a reaction from graham_g in A way to make formZ more popular (but you won't like it...)   
    There are a just a few things to consider here.
    1. the iMac Pro was really merely a transition machine while they took way to damn long to come out with a Pro Tower.
    2. The M1 in its debut looks impressive.  And thus far, we only have the low power mobile chip to give comparisons to.  The M1 beats anything currently in it's class.  Qualcom's SnapDragon, is simply outclassed. (for now)
    3. Microsofts ARM implementation up to this point is sub-par compared to intel/AMD offerings on their own side.  Not so for the M1/Intel Comparison.  So much so, that the ARM windows was Quasi-Ported over to the M1 mac to run in translation, and it runs better on an M1 than the Microsofts own SnapDragon derivative.   I do not pretend this will stay this way.  It won't take long for MS to have their WTF moments and get moving again.  They can't afford to have another iPod/Zune or iPhone/windows mobile event, and I bet they know it.   Ultimately, this is a good thing for both sides of the argument.
    4. Yes, there is software that I have had to run that was elusively windows, and I am disappointed that Parallels/VMWare no longer (probably temporarily) have a place.  I bet once MS beefs up their ARM hardware to match, the market for it will grow and software will make that transition.
    5. As I understand, there is a fair amount of windows software that is not Native to WARM.  Stifling the market for the hardware, thus stifling the market for the software, Recursively.  This is likely to change now.  As much as people do not like apple (often for merit,)  they do change the industry, repeatedly.
    6. Microsoft themselves have not committed to the ARM platform, thus giving rise to #5.  It has been more of a hobby if you will.  This too, is likely to change.
    7. Microsoft did not really beat Apple to the ARM punch.  The M1 and ostensibly further derivatives are in themselves derivatives from  their phone chips they have been designing for quite some time.  Apple licenses the instruction set, they design the chips on their own.
    8. Yes, GPU has lagged historically, pathetically.  However, even on the GPU integrated mobile chip, there is a significant boost.   Though certainly not on par with discrete GPUs of Nvidia or AMD currently.  For that we will just have to wait to see what they do.
    9. For apple to push back into the PC market with their own chipset, is a pretty good sign of them showing commitment regardless of their other business models.   I too do think that they let the Pro business slide and slide way too far.  IMHO, they should have jumped ship from Intel a long time ago and embraced AMD or at least been willing to use the best option to fit their end goal (machine to machine) Should I B&M about MS and their foray into Business products?  I mean really?  A word processor, how lame!  Or their AI devision? or Quantum computing, or WebServices/Servers?  Hardware, Mice, keyboards, tablets, hybrids, AR glasses, tables.... yes tables?  That means they have an industrial design team, or at least doles out money to have it done for them.
    10. The car is still a rumor.  And doubtful they will be designing building the chassis and other critical "Car" stuff.
    11. Hate on apple all you want.  Thats cool that you think that's cool.  Damn, your so cool!  However consider this.  If it weren't for Apple or someone like them, Microsoft would not have needed to advance their products.  And quite frankly, likewise.  If Apple didn't have someone to rise up to, they never would have.   If you haven't figured it out by now, let me in on a little secret.  MS is like a grandpa hoarder.  They have an extremely difficult time letting go of anything legacy.  I sure do wish we could go back to MS Dos.  Ah, the good-ol-days.  You know, before CAD even existed on anything other than a Mainframe. 5.25" floppy drives oooh yea!  Hell, my first computer had a cassette drive.  I have even used a computer professionally that used paper punch tape (I "programmed" embroidery machines) (not quite far back enough to have used punch cards)   I was pretty good at getting around a VAX/VMS.  All legacy stuff, I am really honestly happy to be done with now that I know better.
    While I am sure Apple and it's overwhelming willingness to drop legacy concepts is a thorn in ADSs side, as well as other developers.  Apple or MS isn't ADSs problem.
    *Marketing, yes, is a strong part of it.  Much of their marketing used to be through Universities and students.  That market of marketing doesn't appear to be viable any longer.  
    *Technologies, also a strong part of it.  Web based platforms are getting stronger.  There is a write once deliver anywhere model for you.  Would it be worth their effort too do so?  I do not know.  Personally, I prefer native... but as hardware gets more capable, this may not be an issue in the future (maybe not now, my brain might just be legacy.)
    * Open source and free(ish)ware.  Many modelers get their feet wet these days on such "products" and have no need to move past them.  This has taken much of the student market.  In my opinion, ADS should embrace some of the OpenSource Base code to enhance the functionality.  How about an open source Physics engine?  I think Bullet is one.   There is a lot out there that they could, I think, Capitalize on.  Now that Python is in the works, this is all I will say about python in this discussion, there are tons of libraries that can be taken advantage of.
    * Consolidation.  Well, just think of Autodesk.  They have so many products (and shelved products they have purchased.)   Modo has changed hands at least twice now and into a conglomerate.
    * Base philosophy.   Things are changing.  ADS is small enough to lift its head and see this. Though difficult. This is to their advantage.  But it is up to them to do so.  And Up to us to prod them to do so.  Constructively, of course.
    *** User Base.  Yes, I mean us!  We are a problem for ADS.  Why, because we are also aging.  We have less time to play and experiment and give word of mouth and build things just for the cool factor of it.  The youth, that is what they do, and as they push forward, they also push forward their toolset.  I am sure there are some younger folk here than I.  Probably some real young ones too, say in their 30's or 40's.  But these are going to be career people too. Not spending their free time pushing the envelope and showing off....   Showing off!!!! AKA word of mouth marketing.
    * Predicting demise... Oh that helps.  Here, let's create the impressions a company is unhealthy so nobody wants to buy in.  Real responsible.  It is like a politician telling America what to think by telling America what he thinks America thinks..  (Apologies to any anAmericans out there, but this is something our politicians do and it is effective over our citizenry of both parties.  You may recognize the strategy in your homeland as well)
    Picking one thing and pointing to it as "the" problem is quite frankly Myopic.  And I say this not to defend Apple.  It is just a simplistic and myopic mindset.  Nobody will solve real problems with this form of thinking.  This is meant as a constructive criticism, but take it however you like.  You have the right to be offended.
    If we want ADS and fZ to survive... Help them help you!  Their last beta was open.Wide open.  Test, give feedback, not bitchfests  (though looking back, I am quite guilty of that too.)  Often the bug reports aren't specific but overwhelmingly non-specific.  Especially about the UI.  And regardless, they have to make decisions.  One group of people will want something one way and another will hate it...  Deal with it!  Or, better yet.  Devise a solution at least in concept... don't just tell them something sucks.  detail it.  And only hope that it fits in with their intentions... don't expect it.  I have suggested many things over the 27ish years of being a user... Many have been included, most have not.  I deal.   Which is why I love Py*** oops, so close!
    Quit posting bug reports on the forum!!  They have no way to track them long term.  The forum just isn't built for it.
    Let's quit being the fudy duddies we have become and show our passions like we used to.  Quit bitching like old men on a street bench.  Remember the days when we had self driven contests? (thanks Dan M! those were good times)    Let's quit thinking we are of responsibility mean while pointing the finger anywhere and everywhere else.
     
    Don't get me wrong, ADS has work to do.  In some areas, a lot!  I formally make myself available to ADS to offer my input, not demands.  Should they have use for it.
    ¢£
    Hah!  I doubt anybody will read all of that.  Can't blame anybody for that but me.  Though about editing it down, but WTH.
  4. Like
    ¢hris £und reacted to ZTEK in Left field, far out suggestion   
    I also think it's a great idea, and I hope it comes to fruition. Already, I offer myself to participate, and you can also count on me to test it during the development period if you need it. I don't have any programming experience, but I am methodical.
    I hope ADS will be interested and you receive their support. I suppose you will need it.
    Thanks for the propositive initiative and ideas!
  5. Like
    ¢hris £und got a reaction from graham_g in A way to make formZ more popular (but you won't like it...)   
    There are a just a few things to consider here.
    1. the iMac Pro was really merely a transition machine while they took way to damn long to come out with a Pro Tower.
    2. The M1 in its debut looks impressive.  And thus far, we only have the low power mobile chip to give comparisons to.  The M1 beats anything currently in it's class.  Qualcom's SnapDragon, is simply outclassed. (for now)
    3. Microsofts ARM implementation up to this point is sub-par compared to intel/AMD offerings on their own side.  Not so for the M1/Intel Comparison.  So much so, that the ARM windows was Quasi-Ported over to the M1 mac to run in translation, and it runs better on an M1 than the Microsofts own SnapDragon derivative.   I do not pretend this will stay this way.  It won't take long for MS to have their WTF moments and get moving again.  They can't afford to have another iPod/Zune or iPhone/windows mobile event, and I bet they know it.   Ultimately, this is a good thing for both sides of the argument.
    4. Yes, there is software that I have had to run that was elusively windows, and I am disappointed that Parallels/VMWare no longer (probably temporarily) have a place.  I bet once MS beefs up their ARM hardware to match, the market for it will grow and software will make that transition.
    5. As I understand, there is a fair amount of windows software that is not Native to WARM.  Stifling the market for the hardware, thus stifling the market for the software, Recursively.  This is likely to change now.  As much as people do not like apple (often for merit,)  they do change the industry, repeatedly.
    6. Microsoft themselves have not committed to the ARM platform, thus giving rise to #5.  It has been more of a hobby if you will.  This too, is likely to change.
    7. Microsoft did not really beat Apple to the ARM punch.  The M1 and ostensibly further derivatives are in themselves derivatives from  their phone chips they have been designing for quite some time.  Apple licenses the instruction set, they design the chips on their own.
    8. Yes, GPU has lagged historically, pathetically.  However, even on the GPU integrated mobile chip, there is a significant boost.   Though certainly not on par with discrete GPUs of Nvidia or AMD currently.  For that we will just have to wait to see what they do.
    9. For apple to push back into the PC market with their own chipset, is a pretty good sign of them showing commitment regardless of their other business models.   I too do think that they let the Pro business slide and slide way too far.  IMHO, they should have jumped ship from Intel a long time ago and embraced AMD or at least been willing to use the best option to fit their end goal (machine to machine) Should I B&M about MS and their foray into Business products?  I mean really?  A word processor, how lame!  Or their AI devision? or Quantum computing, or WebServices/Servers?  Hardware, Mice, keyboards, tablets, hybrids, AR glasses, tables.... yes tables?  That means they have an industrial design team, or at least doles out money to have it done for them.
    10. The car is still a rumor.  And doubtful they will be designing building the chassis and other critical "Car" stuff.
    11. Hate on apple all you want.  Thats cool that you think that's cool.  Damn, your so cool!  However consider this.  If it weren't for Apple or someone like them, Microsoft would not have needed to advance their products.  And quite frankly, likewise.  If Apple didn't have someone to rise up to, they never would have.   If you haven't figured it out by now, let me in on a little secret.  MS is like a grandpa hoarder.  They have an extremely difficult time letting go of anything legacy.  I sure do wish we could go back to MS Dos.  Ah, the good-ol-days.  You know, before CAD even existed on anything other than a Mainframe. 5.25" floppy drives oooh yea!  Hell, my first computer had a cassette drive.  I have even used a computer professionally that used paper punch tape (I "programmed" embroidery machines) (not quite far back enough to have used punch cards)   I was pretty good at getting around a VAX/VMS.  All legacy stuff, I am really honestly happy to be done with now that I know better.
    While I am sure Apple and it's overwhelming willingness to drop legacy concepts is a thorn in ADSs side, as well as other developers.  Apple or MS isn't ADSs problem.
    *Marketing, yes, is a strong part of it.  Much of their marketing used to be through Universities and students.  That market of marketing doesn't appear to be viable any longer.  
    *Technologies, also a strong part of it.  Web based platforms are getting stronger.  There is a write once deliver anywhere model for you.  Would it be worth their effort too do so?  I do not know.  Personally, I prefer native... but as hardware gets more capable, this may not be an issue in the future (maybe not now, my brain might just be legacy.)
    * Open source and free(ish)ware.  Many modelers get their feet wet these days on such "products" and have no need to move past them.  This has taken much of the student market.  In my opinion, ADS should embrace some of the OpenSource Base code to enhance the functionality.  How about an open source Physics engine?  I think Bullet is one.   There is a lot out there that they could, I think, Capitalize on.  Now that Python is in the works, this is all I will say about python in this discussion, there are tons of libraries that can be taken advantage of.
    * Consolidation.  Well, just think of Autodesk.  They have so many products (and shelved products they have purchased.)   Modo has changed hands at least twice now and into a conglomerate.
    * Base philosophy.   Things are changing.  ADS is small enough to lift its head and see this. Though difficult. This is to their advantage.  But it is up to them to do so.  And Up to us to prod them to do so.  Constructively, of course.
    *** User Base.  Yes, I mean us!  We are a problem for ADS.  Why, because we are also aging.  We have less time to play and experiment and give word of mouth and build things just for the cool factor of it.  The youth, that is what they do, and as they push forward, they also push forward their toolset.  I am sure there are some younger folk here than I.  Probably some real young ones too, say in their 30's or 40's.  But these are going to be career people too. Not spending their free time pushing the envelope and showing off....   Showing off!!!! AKA word of mouth marketing.
    * Predicting demise... Oh that helps.  Here, let's create the impressions a company is unhealthy so nobody wants to buy in.  Real responsible.  It is like a politician telling America what to think by telling America what he thinks America thinks..  (Apologies to any anAmericans out there, but this is something our politicians do and it is effective over our citizenry of both parties.  You may recognize the strategy in your homeland as well)
    Picking one thing and pointing to it as "the" problem is quite frankly Myopic.  And I say this not to defend Apple.  It is just a simplistic and myopic mindset.  Nobody will solve real problems with this form of thinking.  This is meant as a constructive criticism, but take it however you like.  You have the right to be offended.
    If we want ADS and fZ to survive... Help them help you!  Their last beta was open.Wide open.  Test, give feedback, not bitchfests  (though looking back, I am quite guilty of that too.)  Often the bug reports aren't specific but overwhelmingly non-specific.  Especially about the UI.  And regardless, they have to make decisions.  One group of people will want something one way and another will hate it...  Deal with it!  Or, better yet.  Devise a solution at least in concept... don't just tell them something sucks.  detail it.  And only hope that it fits in with their intentions... don't expect it.  I have suggested many things over the 27ish years of being a user... Many have been included, most have not.  I deal.   Which is why I love Py*** oops, so close!
    Quit posting bug reports on the forum!!  They have no way to track them long term.  The forum just isn't built for it.
    Let's quit being the fudy duddies we have become and show our passions like we used to.  Quit bitching like old men on a street bench.  Remember the days when we had self driven contests? (thanks Dan M! those were good times)    Let's quit thinking we are of responsibility mean while pointing the finger anywhere and everywhere else.
     
    Don't get me wrong, ADS has work to do.  In some areas, a lot!  I formally make myself available to ADS to offer my input, not demands.  Should they have use for it.
    ¢£
    Hah!  I doubt anybody will read all of that.  Can't blame anybody for that but me.  Though about editing it down, but WTH.
  6. Like
    ¢hris £und got a reaction from graham_g in Left field, far out suggestion   
    After spending a bit of time catching up on the forum and repeating themes over the years... I wonder if something like this could help us all.
    How about a built in bug reporting system.  Key features:
    •One that effectively crowd sources issues.  
    •One that users can view the list of bugs and collectively set the priority of need (not to confuse this with priority of ease, sometimes easy fixes should come first).  •One where when a problem is difficult to describe, a record function can be invoked to map the users actions with the tracebacks and logs.   Think of something like how the macro recording is performed, but used instead for bug reporting.  
    •Up to and including optional screenshots/screencaps.  
    •System configuration is automatically captured
    •This would be *opt in, but a bare minimum of tracking of conditions and parameters that are always on (the aforementioned option*).  As some of the more spontaneous issues, I can't recall the exact steps I was performing to even test if it is a repeatable issue.
    •Issues databased, sorted and categorized, possibly with user input.
    More?
    What I am envisioning is something built into the core of fZ.  I can certainly reason why ADS would NOT want to implement such a scheme.  As they may not want to  expose the quantitative value or qualitative value of their bugs.  Or be a constant reminder to users of issues.    Me personally, I think this would have more advantages than disadvantages especially in the long run... but it would probably take time to get there.
    Essentially, what I am thinking of is how SpaceX deals with things.   They monitor everything they can think of as a massive data collection effort for the sole purpose of improvement.
    How many of us have pet bugs that we now ignore, or work around or, or or and simply do not report it.  We got stuff to do, so breaking out and dedicated email is just too much work.  This system could collect the frequency of specific bug events to aid ADS in priority.     e.g.   if a minor bug is experienced by 3 users infrequently, it can probably be pushed down the list.   However, if a minor bug has a high frequency amongst users and a high frequency to specific users, this would push the issue up the list.
    This If active, this would be a post hoc system.   What I am trying to say here is, the user is working then notices the bug...  at that moment, the user can flag it as a bug in they system (fZ)  and the processes and actions that it took to get there is then and only then reported.  Optionally allowing the user to include their model (being sensitive to IP and etc...)   This could be set up as a data worm (as new info comes in, the oldest is discarded)  Length would have to be determined, naturally.
    I always prefer an opt in model and something like this, in my opinion should follow accordingly.
    What do you think?  Am I being stupid?  Would this be too hard to implement?  Would people bother?  Beta Testers only?  Is this a pill ADS should be willing to swallow (yea, probably a pretty big pill.)   Pros/Cons?
    Any thoughts to my ¼ baked idea? 
     
    ¢£
  7. Like
    ¢hris £und reacted to Des in First Project with Twinmotion   
    Thanks for your comments guys.
    I'm working on another job at the moment. It's a small minimalist house surrounded with trees so I'll post that as well once I've finished.
    I think TM excels with the built in entourage libraries.
  8. Like
    ¢hris £und reacted to AndyD in 1995 University exam   
    Made with a very ancient Z version. I made only half building for the small memory and processor of Apple Performa 360. 2d drawings made with MiniCad (now VectorWorks). Here is the complete building:
    Andrea
    Prospetti_Sezioni 2.pdf


  9. Like
    ¢hris £und reacted to FZnoob in Tutorials??   
    I see lots of examples of  people's, work but not too many actual "tutorials".
     
  10. Like
    ¢hris £und reacted to skybound13 in Tutorials??   
    I noticed this also.  It’s great to be able to share works in progress and get comments from others but they’re not tutorials, perhaps a new “Works in Progress” forum category should be created?  Being new to the formZ forum, I don’t know if there are administrators who are responsible for reviewing new posts and moving them to the appropriate category if needed.
  11. Like
    ¢hris £und reacted to Hugo in Why isn't formz more popular?   
    Justin,
    I stopped using Adobe products, and I do not miss them at all. Since then I am using Affinity Suit with enthusiasm. Actually I do not use Layout the way ADS intended, because it is still not on par with the 3D modeller.
    I use for my CAD drawings 3D modeller FormZ, make a full shaded screen dump on 300dpi, and get them in Affinity Publisher to create PDF's for my clients. Perfect output with full control of WYSISWG. Try this with Layout... Pfffffff.
    Today I wrote an email to Serif and AutoDesSys to tell them what could be a nice idea: They should working together as they are small company's and create unique and very good tools (AF suit / FormZ 3D). I really do believe it's a way small company's could do. Small is more flexible... I am not that enthusiastic to see the Autodesks, Nemetschek's, Adobe's on this globe. Those company's became just too big. 
  12. Like
    ¢hris £und reacted to DanM in Why isn't formz more popular?   
    I use Form-Z for many years mainly to create ID concepts. As for the original post, think that ADS is not focusing on Mechanical design at all and there are many other tools out there that do much better job at that. form Z is a general use 3D modeling program as such it lacks the focus for specific tasks. It does have some dedicated tools for architects and Interior design but almost non for Industrial design and for sure non for Mechanical design. But because it is such a capable 3D modeller you can get by using it for ID and even mechanical design.
    If ADS is interested to get into the Mechanical CAD or CAID market there are many core features that need be added to the program and other existing features need to improve dramatically.
  13. Like
    ¢hris £und reacted to CADulator in Why isn't formz more popular?   
    Well, I certainly like to consider myself an independent thinker and a distinguished modeler.  😁  But don't you think more than 0.1% of the market would consider themselves similarly?  Formz is also a perfectly fine tool for those who are not so independent and distinguished.  It's priced right and very capable.  I just don't get why it is so widely ignored, and has been for so long.  What am I missing?
  14. Like
    ¢hris £und reacted to R2D2 in FormZ/dynamo/revit - SAT format fro FZfree ?   
    I have been doing some work with FZ to dynamo/revit, and FZ does a great job exporting ACIS/SAT/DWG files for that purpose.
    My skills in revit are very limited, and it really is a pain to do even basic modeling there. (that is , for me...)
    That said I think FZ could have a potential use for revit customers, and I was wondering if it might be a smart move to add ACIS/SAT V7 import/export to FZfree.
    Revit can make use of V7 SAT files (and FZ is even mentioned on their homepage😲)
    Note: Revit imports ACIS ® solids from SAT ® files. SAT file formats later than version 7.0 do not import into Revit. Determine which version your solid modeling program creates. Some solid modeling products (such as form-Z ®) create SAT file formats later than version 7.0 by default.
    Revit users/offices already spend approx. 300$ per month and seat, so maybe the hurdle to then buy Jr. or Pro is not as high.
    The revit user base is huge and maybe that way FZ could start to connect to the world of BIM-users somehow (at least before .rfc file format etc. come into FZ). 
    (or maybe at least step into competition with sketchup importing into revit...)
    I know FZs team is maintaining 6 different versions now (Pro/Jn./Free, for WIN and Osx) and this is of course not meant to cannibalize any given logic within that. Just a thought.
     
     
  15. Like
    ¢hris £und got a reaction from Jaakko in Why form•z is not popular any more:   
    I think one issue to consider is: How does ADS move forward with appealing to younger generations without alienating the rest of us?  New users are essential to the future.  Not in just the direct sales, but it is the new users that push the envelope and brag/show their work.  And, in turn show off the capabilities of their tools.
    There are some details in which the original poster is correct on.  And if ADS replied a bit defensively, I can't really blame them either.  He/She was a bit of a prick about it.
    Point out the issues, fine! (as he/she did so)  But to throw a tantrum dance around those issues... well... prick comes to mind.  (kleiner Schwanz)  But, then again, look at me here, I am being a prick right back.  Everybody has the right to be offended, so F the f off!  (just a joke folks, though I was being serious about everybody has the right to be offended.)
    Regarding the images posted in the OP:
    1, yes this could resolve better.
    2, I think this is new.  Though, I do not keep old versions to back test against except version 6.7.x   It certainly isn't something I have noticed before.
    3, I am missing the problem here.  Ok, the icons themselves don't appeal?  Cry me an H20 Molecule.
    4, Not sure, but the blue dots are admittedly rather vague, and the palette is larger than it needs be.   On the second point, this is a modal dialog and thus has no impact on the operation of the program or it's use.  So, is inconsequential IMHO.   And, oddly, my palette of the same looks different.  I have more options.  Not sure what detailed version of the app He/She tested but it is possible that was a bug.
     
    Regarding the more detailed points above the images, I will respond to the ones I disagree with.  The others I do agree with.
    - bad quality check of functions and tools (unlike rhino)     This needs to be clarified.  Without the specifics this does get into bashing that goes quite well with the tantrum dance later in the post.
    - non consistent tool options (unlike c4d) This needs to be clarified.  Without the specifics this does get into bashing that goes quite well with the tantrum dance later in the post.   Don't different tools require different options?  Or should we just have 1 tool and nothing but options.
    - interface not customizable enough, even in the pro version (unlike c4d, even rhino!)  I actually, kind of agree here, though much of what we do have now is recent and early on in 9 was a cause of much disruption, but has for the most part stabilized.  Too, I am not sure how much of that is given to the free version vs Pro.   If you used the free version, what do you know of the Pro version?  (admittedly, I know nothing of the free version.)
    - very slow development (unlike blender)  Isn't blender open source?  While certainly an issue that ADS has to contend with, this isn't a reasonable comparison.  (I could be wrong)
    - slow response to whishes from users (like many other companies, but most of them have a solid plug in/addon source)  This, historically, I fundamentally disagree.  I have put in a great deal of suggestions over the years.  Many of them have been included and included immediately in the beta cycle.  Not every idea that I have pushed their way has been included... but it would be arrogant of me (more than I already am) for me to assume that any and every idea I have fits with the goals and intent of the company.  And quite frankly have any positive impact on other users than myself.   So, sure, they could pack and pack and pack tools... that tends to go against the whole UI argument though.   A better option is the script/plugin where we the users can do what we need for ourselves. This IMHO, has been a long resurrection in coming.  But one I cannot blame ADS for. The API transition is not trivial.    And to be clear, plug-ins have been available throughout, it is only the scripting that has been temporarily though significantly interrupted... But we are on our way back.    Evangelizing by ADS and users to get developers on board, yea, that could use work.
    - Some modern aspects of designing 3d like parametric, history- or node-based design (and a proper integrated renderer), which other software solutions have long used, are not covered here anyway!  Parametric, really... Z is parametric.   History/Node... yea I think most of us do wish for that. I suspect that Harkens back to some decisions many years ago.  And is probably deep seeded into the code where such changes would be extremely disruptive at this point.     Proper integrated renderer: Hmmm... My renderer is fully integrated. Albeit Dated since Autodesk purchased it and shelved it for the sole purpose of eliminated or at best hurting competition.   V-ray is now available and there are others (yea, kind of)  but this is an issue that if you want, pony up the cash.
    - It is also not enough to offer state of the art technology (like sub-D), the tools have to evolve!  First off, State of the Art sub-D??  Really?  Catmull-clark  sub-D which pretty sure is still what MODO uses (my personal favorite SDS modeler) harkens back all the way back to 1978... Not exactly State of the art.    State of the art would have been T-Splines.  Which ADS was actively working on integrating.  But oops, Autodesk once again to the rescue with a lead life-saver.  Pretty sure they shelved that too.     Lastly on this issue.  fZ isn't a dedicated SDS modeler.  While I personally would like some additional functionality (hell yes, even one tool should be dropped as far as I am concerned.)  So, what can we reasonably expect?  State of the art?  How many other SDS modelers can translate their SDS model to full on Solid object NURBS?  I have no reasonable doubt there aren't any others... I don't think it is many.   Last I looked (and, yes I am a bit out of date)  Modo could not... Can Rhino?  I will have to check, I really don't know.
    The rest of the bullet points are fair... at least up to the Tantrum Dance.  At that point, the OP lost reams of credibility.
    ¢£
    P.S.  I don't seem know know what a short story is.
  16. Like
    ¢hris £und got a reaction from Jaakko in Why form•z is not popular any more:   
    I think one issue to consider is: How does ADS move forward with appealing to younger generations without alienating the rest of us?  New users are essential to the future.  Not in just the direct sales, but it is the new users that push the envelope and brag/show their work.  And, in turn show off the capabilities of their tools.
    There are some details in which the original poster is correct on.  And if ADS replied a bit defensively, I can't really blame them either.  He/She was a bit of a prick about it.
    Point out the issues, fine! (as he/she did so)  But to throw a tantrum dance around those issues... well... prick comes to mind.  (kleiner Schwanz)  But, then again, look at me here, I am being a prick right back.  Everybody has the right to be offended, so F the f off!  (just a joke folks, though I was being serious about everybody has the right to be offended.)
    Regarding the images posted in the OP:
    1, yes this could resolve better.
    2, I think this is new.  Though, I do not keep old versions to back test against except version 6.7.x   It certainly isn't something I have noticed before.
    3, I am missing the problem here.  Ok, the icons themselves don't appeal?  Cry me an H20 Molecule.
    4, Not sure, but the blue dots are admittedly rather vague, and the palette is larger than it needs be.   On the second point, this is a modal dialog and thus has no impact on the operation of the program or it's use.  So, is inconsequential IMHO.   And, oddly, my palette of the same looks different.  I have more options.  Not sure what detailed version of the app He/She tested but it is possible that was a bug.
     
    Regarding the more detailed points above the images, I will respond to the ones I disagree with.  The others I do agree with.
    - bad quality check of functions and tools (unlike rhino)     This needs to be clarified.  Without the specifics this does get into bashing that goes quite well with the tantrum dance later in the post.
    - non consistent tool options (unlike c4d) This needs to be clarified.  Without the specifics this does get into bashing that goes quite well with the tantrum dance later in the post.   Don't different tools require different options?  Or should we just have 1 tool and nothing but options.
    - interface not customizable enough, even in the pro version (unlike c4d, even rhino!)  I actually, kind of agree here, though much of what we do have now is recent and early on in 9 was a cause of much disruption, but has for the most part stabilized.  Too, I am not sure how much of that is given to the free version vs Pro.   If you used the free version, what do you know of the Pro version?  (admittedly, I know nothing of the free version.)
    - very slow development (unlike blender)  Isn't blender open source?  While certainly an issue that ADS has to contend with, this isn't a reasonable comparison.  (I could be wrong)
    - slow response to whishes from users (like many other companies, but most of them have a solid plug in/addon source)  This, historically, I fundamentally disagree.  I have put in a great deal of suggestions over the years.  Many of them have been included and included immediately in the beta cycle.  Not every idea that I have pushed their way has been included... but it would be arrogant of me (more than I already am) for me to assume that any and every idea I have fits with the goals and intent of the company.  And quite frankly have any positive impact on other users than myself.   So, sure, they could pack and pack and pack tools... that tends to go against the whole UI argument though.   A better option is the script/plugin where we the users can do what we need for ourselves. This IMHO, has been a long resurrection in coming.  But one I cannot blame ADS for. The API transition is not trivial.    And to be clear, plug-ins have been available throughout, it is only the scripting that has been temporarily though significantly interrupted... But we are on our way back.    Evangelizing by ADS and users to get developers on board, yea, that could use work.
    - Some modern aspects of designing 3d like parametric, history- or node-based design (and a proper integrated renderer), which other software solutions have long used, are not covered here anyway!  Parametric, really... Z is parametric.   History/Node... yea I think most of us do wish for that. I suspect that Harkens back to some decisions many years ago.  And is probably deep seeded into the code where such changes would be extremely disruptive at this point.     Proper integrated renderer: Hmmm... My renderer is fully integrated. Albeit Dated since Autodesk purchased it and shelved it for the sole purpose of eliminated or at best hurting competition.   V-ray is now available and there are others (yea, kind of)  but this is an issue that if you want, pony up the cash.
    - It is also not enough to offer state of the art technology (like sub-D), the tools have to evolve!  First off, State of the Art sub-D??  Really?  Catmull-clark  sub-D which pretty sure is still what MODO uses (my personal favorite SDS modeler) harkens back all the way back to 1978... Not exactly State of the art.    State of the art would have been T-Splines.  Which ADS was actively working on integrating.  But oops, Autodesk once again to the rescue with a lead life-saver.  Pretty sure they shelved that too.     Lastly on this issue.  fZ isn't a dedicated SDS modeler.  While I personally would like some additional functionality (hell yes, even one tool should be dropped as far as I am concerned.)  So, what can we reasonably expect?  State of the art?  How many other SDS modelers can translate their SDS model to full on Solid object NURBS?  I have no reasonable doubt there aren't any others... I don't think it is many.   Last I looked (and, yes I am a bit out of date)  Modo could not... Can Rhino?  I will have to check, I really don't know.
    The rest of the bullet points are fair... at least up to the Tantrum Dance.  At that point, the OP lost reams of credibility.
    ¢£
    P.S.  I don't seem know know what a short story is.
  17. Like
    ¢hris £und got a reaction from graham_g in Left field, far out suggestion   
    After spending a bit of time catching up on the forum and repeating themes over the years... I wonder if something like this could help us all.
    How about a built in bug reporting system.  Key features:
    •One that effectively crowd sources issues.  
    •One that users can view the list of bugs and collectively set the priority of need (not to confuse this with priority of ease, sometimes easy fixes should come first).  •One where when a problem is difficult to describe, a record function can be invoked to map the users actions with the tracebacks and logs.   Think of something like how the macro recording is performed, but used instead for bug reporting.  
    •Up to and including optional screenshots/screencaps.  
    •System configuration is automatically captured
    •This would be *opt in, but a bare minimum of tracking of conditions and parameters that are always on (the aforementioned option*).  As some of the more spontaneous issues, I can't recall the exact steps I was performing to even test if it is a repeatable issue.
    •Issues databased, sorted and categorized, possibly with user input.
    More?
    What I am envisioning is something built into the core of fZ.  I can certainly reason why ADS would NOT want to implement such a scheme.  As they may not want to  expose the quantitative value or qualitative value of their bugs.  Or be a constant reminder to users of issues.    Me personally, I think this would have more advantages than disadvantages especially in the long run... but it would probably take time to get there.
    Essentially, what I am thinking of is how SpaceX deals with things.   They monitor everything they can think of as a massive data collection effort for the sole purpose of improvement.
    How many of us have pet bugs that we now ignore, or work around or, or or and simply do not report it.  We got stuff to do, so breaking out and dedicated email is just too much work.  This system could collect the frequency of specific bug events to aid ADS in priority.     e.g.   if a minor bug is experienced by 3 users infrequently, it can probably be pushed down the list.   However, if a minor bug has a high frequency amongst users and a high frequency to specific users, this would push the issue up the list.
    This If active, this would be a post hoc system.   What I am trying to say here is, the user is working then notices the bug...  at that moment, the user can flag it as a bug in they system (fZ)  and the processes and actions that it took to get there is then and only then reported.  Optionally allowing the user to include their model (being sensitive to IP and etc...)   This could be set up as a data worm (as new info comes in, the oldest is discarded)  Length would have to be determined, naturally.
    I always prefer an opt in model and something like this, in my opinion should follow accordingly.
    What do you think?  Am I being stupid?  Would this be too hard to implement?  Would people bother?  Beta Testers only?  Is this a pill ADS should be willing to swallow (yea, probably a pretty big pill.)   Pros/Cons?
    Any thoughts to my ¼ baked idea? 
     
    ¢£
  18. Like
    ¢hris £und reacted to ZTEK in A way to make formZ more popular (but you won't like it...)   
    The other day, I borrowed an HP i7 laptop with Geforce GTX from a friend who just switched completely to Mac with a new MacBook Pro, iPhone 12, iPad Pro, and Watch!
    I wanted to try the most current version of BricsCAD to check the differences with macOS. Also, have a taste of formZ 9.1 on Wintel.
    It took me a couple of hours to download and install everything, and it took me only 5 minutes to realize I'm not interested in the test anymore! 😳🤯😇
    Working on my mid-2012 MacBook Pro is still a pleasure, while I wait a bit longer for the new Mx-based Macs. Besides, the last realistic render I did was over TEN years ago!… my fault with Shaded Full display mode complicity. Thanks, ADS!
  19. Like
    ¢hris £und reacted to Andrew West in Why form•z is not popular any more:   
    It has been hard for me not to comment here so let me try to be constructive.  I will stay away from technical suggestions. 
    Everyone has something that they feel needs immediate attention and everyone has their opinion.  These opinions are obviously based on how one uses the program.  My priorities are certainly not those of others here, nor should they be.  So how do we  form some sort of consensus on what needs to be addressed first and then get that to ADS in a constructive manner?   It could even be something that the users vote on individually every quarter.   Just random posts griping about one thing or another seems very inefficient and I can tell that it grates the dev team the wrong way.  We do need them on our side.  
    I have used almost every other program out there since I started CAD work in 1985 at Cal Poly.  Back in those days you had to type in coordinates in order to build a simple line.  It also took a main frame at UCLA to calculate it (MegaCad).  Fast forward to today and I can still see remnants of some of the old programs lingering around decades after they should have been abandoned.  Max is a perfect example of a program that seems like a collection of plug-ins, scripts and add ons tacked onto a  shell that has rarely changed.  Given the work it takes to completely rethink the interface of an entire program it is obvious that it would take a lot of time and money.  Otherwise others with deeper pockets would have tackled it years ago.  Form.z has evolved several times over the last 30 years.  Not all of us were happy with the changes but we learned to adapt (slowly sometimes).  My main concern with how this is evolving is that with each additional change to the main program certain other parts  and tools get corrupted.  It then takes a lot of time to chase each issue and resolve them.  By the time we get something really stable it seems like it's time to shake it all up again with a new release.  As others have said it feels like we are on a constant Beta release.  This is why I why, at the time, I refused to give up on 6.7 which was a fast production powerhouse for my office.    Now, for the record I have tried many other programs thinking that maybe I might migrate over.  I have not.  Each has its own issues and quirks and I have crashed every one of them.  It is just the nature of the beast that we will always be chasing the elusive "perfect program", whatever that may mean to you.  
  20. Like
    ¢hris £und reacted to snow in Why form•z is not popular any more:   
    I share this sentiment.  I use Cinema 4D and formZ equally in my day-to-day workflow and I find myself trying to learn how to model more effectively in Cinema simply because the UI is that much better.
    Criticism is fine, but constructive criticism is better.  I agree with your original post that the icon design is in need of a facelift.  I'd love to see a streamlined look among the icons and I allude to how C4D uses color schemes to identify toolsets.  Purple for modifiers, blue for primitives, and green for... mograph?  I'm not sure what to call this toolset.  The basic functions are all orange (select, move, rotate, point/line/poly).  In formZ, the generate toolset is pretty solid, and I would argue that the subdivision edit tools are pretty effective only using one extra color for the icons.  If I were to change these, I would dial back on the "shine" of the icon objects.  they can still be 3D, but the whole gradient from white to dark blue is unnecessary and makes small icons look too busy.  When you get into other toolsets (modify, measure, modify NURBS) there's a lot of other colors going on and it loses a sense of uniformity among the interface.  It would be cool to see all "generate" "shapes" "primitives" so have one color scheme, modifiers to have another, and then all the editing tools just use the two color scheme like subD edit.
    I would also like to see formZ ditch the "depressed icon" look that you see in the tool dock and the tool options.  it's a pretty antiquated appearance and wastes precious pixels that could be used for larger, clearer icons.  I think Cinema also nails this by just highlighting the active tool/functions in blue.  it's super clean and easy to spot.  Same with the red outline in the tool dock.  Other programs probably use this approach as well, but I don't have them at my disposal to show as an example.
    I know that these are simply cosmetic issues and 100% do NOT effect the functions of the program, which is why I don't spend much time posting about it.  HOWEVER, I have tried other 3D software and I'm immediately repulsed by the cluttered UI (lookin' at you 3DS Max) which makes me never want to open that program again.  I would suspect that formZ might have the same issue for new users who are borderline OCD designers that put a LOT of stock in aesthetic such as myself, but I could be wrong.  SO.... is it imperative that formZ updates the interface to keep users?  I don't think so.  Would an interface overhaul help gather new users?  I don't know the answer, but it's definitely worth a shot.
    After all "good designers copy, great designers steal"


  21. Like
    ¢hris £und got a reaction from graham_g in A way to make formZ more popular (but you won't like it...)   
    There are a just a few things to consider here.
    1. the iMac Pro was really merely a transition machine while they took way to damn long to come out with a Pro Tower.
    2. The M1 in its debut looks impressive.  And thus far, we only have the low power mobile chip to give comparisons to.  The M1 beats anything currently in it's class.  Qualcom's SnapDragon, is simply outclassed. (for now)
    3. Microsofts ARM implementation up to this point is sub-par compared to intel/AMD offerings on their own side.  Not so for the M1/Intel Comparison.  So much so, that the ARM windows was Quasi-Ported over to the M1 mac to run in translation, and it runs better on an M1 than the Microsofts own SnapDragon derivative.   I do not pretend this will stay this way.  It won't take long for MS to have their WTF moments and get moving again.  They can't afford to have another iPod/Zune or iPhone/windows mobile event, and I bet they know it.   Ultimately, this is a good thing for both sides of the argument.
    4. Yes, there is software that I have had to run that was elusively windows, and I am disappointed that Parallels/VMWare no longer (probably temporarily) have a place.  I bet once MS beefs up their ARM hardware to match, the market for it will grow and software will make that transition.
    5. As I understand, there is a fair amount of windows software that is not Native to WARM.  Stifling the market for the hardware, thus stifling the market for the software, Recursively.  This is likely to change now.  As much as people do not like apple (often for merit,)  they do change the industry, repeatedly.
    6. Microsoft themselves have not committed to the ARM platform, thus giving rise to #5.  It has been more of a hobby if you will.  This too, is likely to change.
    7. Microsoft did not really beat Apple to the ARM punch.  The M1 and ostensibly further derivatives are in themselves derivatives from  their phone chips they have been designing for quite some time.  Apple licenses the instruction set, they design the chips on their own.
    8. Yes, GPU has lagged historically, pathetically.  However, even on the GPU integrated mobile chip, there is a significant boost.   Though certainly not on par with discrete GPUs of Nvidia or AMD currently.  For that we will just have to wait to see what they do.
    9. For apple to push back into the PC market with their own chipset, is a pretty good sign of them showing commitment regardless of their other business models.   I too do think that they let the Pro business slide and slide way too far.  IMHO, they should have jumped ship from Intel a long time ago and embraced AMD or at least been willing to use the best option to fit their end goal (machine to machine) Should I B&M about MS and their foray into Business products?  I mean really?  A word processor, how lame!  Or their AI devision? or Quantum computing, or WebServices/Servers?  Hardware, Mice, keyboards, tablets, hybrids, AR glasses, tables.... yes tables?  That means they have an industrial design team, or at least doles out money to have it done for them.
    10. The car is still a rumor.  And doubtful they will be designing building the chassis and other critical "Car" stuff.
    11. Hate on apple all you want.  Thats cool that you think that's cool.  Damn, your so cool!  However consider this.  If it weren't for Apple or someone like them, Microsoft would not have needed to advance their products.  And quite frankly, likewise.  If Apple didn't have someone to rise up to, they never would have.   If you haven't figured it out by now, let me in on a little secret.  MS is like a grandpa hoarder.  They have an extremely difficult time letting go of anything legacy.  I sure do wish we could go back to MS Dos.  Ah, the good-ol-days.  You know, before CAD even existed on anything other than a Mainframe. 5.25" floppy drives oooh yea!  Hell, my first computer had a cassette drive.  I have even used a computer professionally that used paper punch tape (I "programmed" embroidery machines) (not quite far back enough to have used punch cards)   I was pretty good at getting around a VAX/VMS.  All legacy stuff, I am really honestly happy to be done with now that I know better.
    While I am sure Apple and it's overwhelming willingness to drop legacy concepts is a thorn in ADSs side, as well as other developers.  Apple or MS isn't ADSs problem.
    *Marketing, yes, is a strong part of it.  Much of their marketing used to be through Universities and students.  That market of marketing doesn't appear to be viable any longer.  
    *Technologies, also a strong part of it.  Web based platforms are getting stronger.  There is a write once deliver anywhere model for you.  Would it be worth their effort too do so?  I do not know.  Personally, I prefer native... but as hardware gets more capable, this may not be an issue in the future (maybe not now, my brain might just be legacy.)
    * Open source and free(ish)ware.  Many modelers get their feet wet these days on such "products" and have no need to move past them.  This has taken much of the student market.  In my opinion, ADS should embrace some of the OpenSource Base code to enhance the functionality.  How about an open source Physics engine?  I think Bullet is one.   There is a lot out there that they could, I think, Capitalize on.  Now that Python is in the works, this is all I will say about python in this discussion, there are tons of libraries that can be taken advantage of.
    * Consolidation.  Well, just think of Autodesk.  They have so many products (and shelved products they have purchased.)   Modo has changed hands at least twice now and into a conglomerate.
    * Base philosophy.   Things are changing.  ADS is small enough to lift its head and see this. Though difficult. This is to their advantage.  But it is up to them to do so.  And Up to us to prod them to do so.  Constructively, of course.
    *** User Base.  Yes, I mean us!  We are a problem for ADS.  Why, because we are also aging.  We have less time to play and experiment and give word of mouth and build things just for the cool factor of it.  The youth, that is what they do, and as they push forward, they also push forward their toolset.  I am sure there are some younger folk here than I.  Probably some real young ones too, say in their 30's or 40's.  But these are going to be career people too. Not spending their free time pushing the envelope and showing off....   Showing off!!!! AKA word of mouth marketing.
    * Predicting demise... Oh that helps.  Here, let's create the impressions a company is unhealthy so nobody wants to buy in.  Real responsible.  It is like a politician telling America what to think by telling America what he thinks America thinks..  (Apologies to any anAmericans out there, but this is something our politicians do and it is effective over our citizenry of both parties.  You may recognize the strategy in your homeland as well)
    Picking one thing and pointing to it as "the" problem is quite frankly Myopic.  And I say this not to defend Apple.  It is just a simplistic and myopic mindset.  Nobody will solve real problems with this form of thinking.  This is meant as a constructive criticism, but take it however you like.  You have the right to be offended.
    If we want ADS and fZ to survive... Help them help you!  Their last beta was open.Wide open.  Test, give feedback, not bitchfests  (though looking back, I am quite guilty of that too.)  Often the bug reports aren't specific but overwhelmingly non-specific.  Especially about the UI.  And regardless, they have to make decisions.  One group of people will want something one way and another will hate it...  Deal with it!  Or, better yet.  Devise a solution at least in concept... don't just tell them something sucks.  detail it.  And only hope that it fits in with their intentions... don't expect it.  I have suggested many things over the 27ish years of being a user... Many have been included, most have not.  I deal.   Which is why I love Py*** oops, so close!
    Quit posting bug reports on the forum!!  They have no way to track them long term.  The forum just isn't built for it.
    Let's quit being the fudy duddies we have become and show our passions like we used to.  Quit bitching like old men on a street bench.  Remember the days when we had self driven contests? (thanks Dan M! those were good times)    Let's quit thinking we are of responsibility mean while pointing the finger anywhere and everywhere else.
     
    Don't get me wrong, ADS has work to do.  In some areas, a lot!  I formally make myself available to ADS to offer my input, not demands.  Should they have use for it.
    ¢£
    Hah!  I doubt anybody will read all of that.  Can't blame anybody for that but me.  Though about editing it down, but WTH.
  22. Like
    ¢hris £und got a reaction from ZTEK in MIMI updated :: Sort of   
    dpwr,
    Currently, I am going to have to say no.  Now for the excuse:  While transitioning to python, to some degree this eases the burden off ADS to create all of the classes and functions (non-nerd talk, routines) that they had to in the past.  Such as interactions with the OS. as Python takes care of this for me (ADS no longer has to.)  
    However, from pouring over the current documents (and it is true that the documents probably are not caught up to the actual functionality, this kind of thing was evident early on as some examples provided had undocumented calls.  This is probably still the case) The calls to the Materials is extremely limited at this time.    
    It appears that the greater amount of work thus far has gone into wrapping formZs toolset (actual tools that we interact with)  rather than some of the lower level functionality such as assigning materials, surface maps and such.  There may be a good reason for this, I honestly do not know.  But I can speculate that the old system was heavily tied to RenderZone.  This appears to have been shifting away for a while now as is somewhat evident by the quirky behavior of the old MIMI script running in the newer versions.
    If you care, another example of something that hasn't arrived yet in the python API.  Pick order.  I currently can not tell the order in which objects are picked.   For so many of the scripts I have in mind this is crucial.  It dawned on me the other day though, that this may be a technical limitation of python 2.7.   If they step the list of picked objects through a type of list that python uses called a "dictionary".   These lists by they way python 2.7 is created are simply "Unordered"  and not much can be done about it.  To my despair.   Though, I keep hopes out that isn't what ADS is doing, it is possible.  Python has other types of lists too that are ordered, but dictionaries make a lot of sense for specific reasons.   Since Python 3.6 though Dictionaries are now Ordered.   But we also have to wait for ADS to make that move.  (Python is currently up to 3.9.2 I think and 4 is on the horizon)
    Regardless, formZ is huge and there is a lot of non-trivial tasks that remain to be done.   I will keep looping back into this thread as well as into the documentation to see what changes there are.
    My wife decided she is leaving her job to help out with the business, so I may get more time. Or, I may need to find a job or grow the business to make up for the difference...  We shall see.
    ADS, if you are paying attention....?    Materials class methods need to be filled out., Pick order if possible.  Oh so much more, Essentially the lower level interactions.   Thx!
     
    ¢£
  23. Like
    ¢hris £und got a reaction from graham_g in A way to make formZ more popular (but you won't like it...)   
    There are a just a few things to consider here.
    1. the iMac Pro was really merely a transition machine while they took way to damn long to come out with a Pro Tower.
    2. The M1 in its debut looks impressive.  And thus far, we only have the low power mobile chip to give comparisons to.  The M1 beats anything currently in it's class.  Qualcom's SnapDragon, is simply outclassed. (for now)
    3. Microsofts ARM implementation up to this point is sub-par compared to intel/AMD offerings on their own side.  Not so for the M1/Intel Comparison.  So much so, that the ARM windows was Quasi-Ported over to the M1 mac to run in translation, and it runs better on an M1 than the Microsofts own SnapDragon derivative.   I do not pretend this will stay this way.  It won't take long for MS to have their WTF moments and get moving again.  They can't afford to have another iPod/Zune or iPhone/windows mobile event, and I bet they know it.   Ultimately, this is a good thing for both sides of the argument.
    4. Yes, there is software that I have had to run that was elusively windows, and I am disappointed that Parallels/VMWare no longer (probably temporarily) have a place.  I bet once MS beefs up their ARM hardware to match, the market for it will grow and software will make that transition.
    5. As I understand, there is a fair amount of windows software that is not Native to WARM.  Stifling the market for the hardware, thus stifling the market for the software, Recursively.  This is likely to change now.  As much as people do not like apple (often for merit,)  they do change the industry, repeatedly.
    6. Microsoft themselves have not committed to the ARM platform, thus giving rise to #5.  It has been more of a hobby if you will.  This too, is likely to change.
    7. Microsoft did not really beat Apple to the ARM punch.  The M1 and ostensibly further derivatives are in themselves derivatives from  their phone chips they have been designing for quite some time.  Apple licenses the instruction set, they design the chips on their own.
    8. Yes, GPU has lagged historically, pathetically.  However, even on the GPU integrated mobile chip, there is a significant boost.   Though certainly not on par with discrete GPUs of Nvidia or AMD currently.  For that we will just have to wait to see what they do.
    9. For apple to push back into the PC market with their own chipset, is a pretty good sign of them showing commitment regardless of their other business models.   I too do think that they let the Pro business slide and slide way too far.  IMHO, they should have jumped ship from Intel a long time ago and embraced AMD or at least been willing to use the best option to fit their end goal (machine to machine) Should I B&M about MS and their foray into Business products?  I mean really?  A word processor, how lame!  Or their AI devision? or Quantum computing, or WebServices/Servers?  Hardware, Mice, keyboards, tablets, hybrids, AR glasses, tables.... yes tables?  That means they have an industrial design team, or at least doles out money to have it done for them.
    10. The car is still a rumor.  And doubtful they will be designing building the chassis and other critical "Car" stuff.
    11. Hate on apple all you want.  Thats cool that you think that's cool.  Damn, your so cool!  However consider this.  If it weren't for Apple or someone like them, Microsoft would not have needed to advance their products.  And quite frankly, likewise.  If Apple didn't have someone to rise up to, they never would have.   If you haven't figured it out by now, let me in on a little secret.  MS is like a grandpa hoarder.  They have an extremely difficult time letting go of anything legacy.  I sure do wish we could go back to MS Dos.  Ah, the good-ol-days.  You know, before CAD even existed on anything other than a Mainframe. 5.25" floppy drives oooh yea!  Hell, my first computer had a cassette drive.  I have even used a computer professionally that used paper punch tape (I "programmed" embroidery machines) (not quite far back enough to have used punch cards)   I was pretty good at getting around a VAX/VMS.  All legacy stuff, I am really honestly happy to be done with now that I know better.
    While I am sure Apple and it's overwhelming willingness to drop legacy concepts is a thorn in ADSs side, as well as other developers.  Apple or MS isn't ADSs problem.
    *Marketing, yes, is a strong part of it.  Much of their marketing used to be through Universities and students.  That market of marketing doesn't appear to be viable any longer.  
    *Technologies, also a strong part of it.  Web based platforms are getting stronger.  There is a write once deliver anywhere model for you.  Would it be worth their effort too do so?  I do not know.  Personally, I prefer native... but as hardware gets more capable, this may not be an issue in the future (maybe not now, my brain might just be legacy.)
    * Open source and free(ish)ware.  Many modelers get their feet wet these days on such "products" and have no need to move past them.  This has taken much of the student market.  In my opinion, ADS should embrace some of the OpenSource Base code to enhance the functionality.  How about an open source Physics engine?  I think Bullet is one.   There is a lot out there that they could, I think, Capitalize on.  Now that Python is in the works, this is all I will say about python in this discussion, there are tons of libraries that can be taken advantage of.
    * Consolidation.  Well, just think of Autodesk.  They have so many products (and shelved products they have purchased.)   Modo has changed hands at least twice now and into a conglomerate.
    * Base philosophy.   Things are changing.  ADS is small enough to lift its head and see this. Though difficult. This is to their advantage.  But it is up to them to do so.  And Up to us to prod them to do so.  Constructively, of course.
    *** User Base.  Yes, I mean us!  We are a problem for ADS.  Why, because we are also aging.  We have less time to play and experiment and give word of mouth and build things just for the cool factor of it.  The youth, that is what they do, and as they push forward, they also push forward their toolset.  I am sure there are some younger folk here than I.  Probably some real young ones too, say in their 30's or 40's.  But these are going to be career people too. Not spending their free time pushing the envelope and showing off....   Showing off!!!! AKA word of mouth marketing.
    * Predicting demise... Oh that helps.  Here, let's create the impressions a company is unhealthy so nobody wants to buy in.  Real responsible.  It is like a politician telling America what to think by telling America what he thinks America thinks..  (Apologies to any anAmericans out there, but this is something our politicians do and it is effective over our citizenry of both parties.  You may recognize the strategy in your homeland as well)
    Picking one thing and pointing to it as "the" problem is quite frankly Myopic.  And I say this not to defend Apple.  It is just a simplistic and myopic mindset.  Nobody will solve real problems with this form of thinking.  This is meant as a constructive criticism, but take it however you like.  You have the right to be offended.
    If we want ADS and fZ to survive... Help them help you!  Their last beta was open.Wide open.  Test, give feedback, not bitchfests  (though looking back, I am quite guilty of that too.)  Often the bug reports aren't specific but overwhelmingly non-specific.  Especially about the UI.  And regardless, they have to make decisions.  One group of people will want something one way and another will hate it...  Deal with it!  Or, better yet.  Devise a solution at least in concept... don't just tell them something sucks.  detail it.  And only hope that it fits in with their intentions... don't expect it.  I have suggested many things over the 27ish years of being a user... Many have been included, most have not.  I deal.   Which is why I love Py*** oops, so close!
    Quit posting bug reports on the forum!!  They have no way to track them long term.  The forum just isn't built for it.
    Let's quit being the fudy duddies we have become and show our passions like we used to.  Quit bitching like old men on a street bench.  Remember the days when we had self driven contests? (thanks Dan M! those were good times)    Let's quit thinking we are of responsibility mean while pointing the finger anywhere and everywhere else.
     
    Don't get me wrong, ADS has work to do.  In some areas, a lot!  I formally make myself available to ADS to offer my input, not demands.  Should they have use for it.
    ¢£
    Hah!  I doubt anybody will read all of that.  Can't blame anybody for that but me.  Though about editing it down, but WTH.
  24. Like
    ¢hris £und got a reaction from graham_g in A way to make formZ more popular (but you won't like it...)   
    There are a just a few things to consider here.
    1. the iMac Pro was really merely a transition machine while they took way to damn long to come out with a Pro Tower.
    2. The M1 in its debut looks impressive.  And thus far, we only have the low power mobile chip to give comparisons to.  The M1 beats anything currently in it's class.  Qualcom's SnapDragon, is simply outclassed. (for now)
    3. Microsofts ARM implementation up to this point is sub-par compared to intel/AMD offerings on their own side.  Not so for the M1/Intel Comparison.  So much so, that the ARM windows was Quasi-Ported over to the M1 mac to run in translation, and it runs better on an M1 than the Microsofts own SnapDragon derivative.   I do not pretend this will stay this way.  It won't take long for MS to have their WTF moments and get moving again.  They can't afford to have another iPod/Zune or iPhone/windows mobile event, and I bet they know it.   Ultimately, this is a good thing for both sides of the argument.
    4. Yes, there is software that I have had to run that was elusively windows, and I am disappointed that Parallels/VMWare no longer (probably temporarily) have a place.  I bet once MS beefs up their ARM hardware to match, the market for it will grow and software will make that transition.
    5. As I understand, there is a fair amount of windows software that is not Native to WARM.  Stifling the market for the hardware, thus stifling the market for the software, Recursively.  This is likely to change now.  As much as people do not like apple (often for merit,)  they do change the industry, repeatedly.
    6. Microsoft themselves have not committed to the ARM platform, thus giving rise to #5.  It has been more of a hobby if you will.  This too, is likely to change.
    7. Microsoft did not really beat Apple to the ARM punch.  The M1 and ostensibly further derivatives are in themselves derivatives from  their phone chips they have been designing for quite some time.  Apple licenses the instruction set, they design the chips on their own.
    8. Yes, GPU has lagged historically, pathetically.  However, even on the GPU integrated mobile chip, there is a significant boost.   Though certainly not on par with discrete GPUs of Nvidia or AMD currently.  For that we will just have to wait to see what they do.
    9. For apple to push back into the PC market with their own chipset, is a pretty good sign of them showing commitment regardless of their other business models.   I too do think that they let the Pro business slide and slide way too far.  IMHO, they should have jumped ship from Intel a long time ago and embraced AMD or at least been willing to use the best option to fit their end goal (machine to machine) Should I B&M about MS and their foray into Business products?  I mean really?  A word processor, how lame!  Or their AI devision? or Quantum computing, or WebServices/Servers?  Hardware, Mice, keyboards, tablets, hybrids, AR glasses, tables.... yes tables?  That means they have an industrial design team, or at least doles out money to have it done for them.
    10. The car is still a rumor.  And doubtful they will be designing building the chassis and other critical "Car" stuff.
    11. Hate on apple all you want.  Thats cool that you think that's cool.  Damn, your so cool!  However consider this.  If it weren't for Apple or someone like them, Microsoft would not have needed to advance their products.  And quite frankly, likewise.  If Apple didn't have someone to rise up to, they never would have.   If you haven't figured it out by now, let me in on a little secret.  MS is like a grandpa hoarder.  They have an extremely difficult time letting go of anything legacy.  I sure do wish we could go back to MS Dos.  Ah, the good-ol-days.  You know, before CAD even existed on anything other than a Mainframe. 5.25" floppy drives oooh yea!  Hell, my first computer had a cassette drive.  I have even used a computer professionally that used paper punch tape (I "programmed" embroidery machines) (not quite far back enough to have used punch cards)   I was pretty good at getting around a VAX/VMS.  All legacy stuff, I am really honestly happy to be done with now that I know better.
    While I am sure Apple and it's overwhelming willingness to drop legacy concepts is a thorn in ADSs side, as well as other developers.  Apple or MS isn't ADSs problem.
    *Marketing, yes, is a strong part of it.  Much of their marketing used to be through Universities and students.  That market of marketing doesn't appear to be viable any longer.  
    *Technologies, also a strong part of it.  Web based platforms are getting stronger.  There is a write once deliver anywhere model for you.  Would it be worth their effort too do so?  I do not know.  Personally, I prefer native... but as hardware gets more capable, this may not be an issue in the future (maybe not now, my brain might just be legacy.)
    * Open source and free(ish)ware.  Many modelers get their feet wet these days on such "products" and have no need to move past them.  This has taken much of the student market.  In my opinion, ADS should embrace some of the OpenSource Base code to enhance the functionality.  How about an open source Physics engine?  I think Bullet is one.   There is a lot out there that they could, I think, Capitalize on.  Now that Python is in the works, this is all I will say about python in this discussion, there are tons of libraries that can be taken advantage of.
    * Consolidation.  Well, just think of Autodesk.  They have so many products (and shelved products they have purchased.)   Modo has changed hands at least twice now and into a conglomerate.
    * Base philosophy.   Things are changing.  ADS is small enough to lift its head and see this. Though difficult. This is to their advantage.  But it is up to them to do so.  And Up to us to prod them to do so.  Constructively, of course.
    *** User Base.  Yes, I mean us!  We are a problem for ADS.  Why, because we are also aging.  We have less time to play and experiment and give word of mouth and build things just for the cool factor of it.  The youth, that is what they do, and as they push forward, they also push forward their toolset.  I am sure there are some younger folk here than I.  Probably some real young ones too, say in their 30's or 40's.  But these are going to be career people too. Not spending their free time pushing the envelope and showing off....   Showing off!!!! AKA word of mouth marketing.
    * Predicting demise... Oh that helps.  Here, let's create the impressions a company is unhealthy so nobody wants to buy in.  Real responsible.  It is like a politician telling America what to think by telling America what he thinks America thinks..  (Apologies to any anAmericans out there, but this is something our politicians do and it is effective over our citizenry of both parties.  You may recognize the strategy in your homeland as well)
    Picking one thing and pointing to it as "the" problem is quite frankly Myopic.  And I say this not to defend Apple.  It is just a simplistic and myopic mindset.  Nobody will solve real problems with this form of thinking.  This is meant as a constructive criticism, but take it however you like.  You have the right to be offended.
    If we want ADS and fZ to survive... Help them help you!  Their last beta was open.Wide open.  Test, give feedback, not bitchfests  (though looking back, I am quite guilty of that too.)  Often the bug reports aren't specific but overwhelmingly non-specific.  Especially about the UI.  And regardless, they have to make decisions.  One group of people will want something one way and another will hate it...  Deal with it!  Or, better yet.  Devise a solution at least in concept... don't just tell them something sucks.  detail it.  And only hope that it fits in with their intentions... don't expect it.  I have suggested many things over the 27ish years of being a user... Many have been included, most have not.  I deal.   Which is why I love Py*** oops, so close!
    Quit posting bug reports on the forum!!  They have no way to track them long term.  The forum just isn't built for it.
    Let's quit being the fudy duddies we have become and show our passions like we used to.  Quit bitching like old men on a street bench.  Remember the days when we had self driven contests? (thanks Dan M! those were good times)    Let's quit thinking we are of responsibility mean while pointing the finger anywhere and everywhere else.
     
    Don't get me wrong, ADS has work to do.  In some areas, a lot!  I formally make myself available to ADS to offer my input, not demands.  Should they have use for it.
    ¢£
    Hah!  I doubt anybody will read all of that.  Can't blame anybody for that but me.  Though about editing it down, but WTH.
  25. Like
    ¢hris £und reacted to AsOne in A way to make formZ more popular (but you won't like it...)   
    FormZ 9 runs as smooth as butter on my 2019 iMac.  With all the Shaded Full graphics options turned on (shadows, multi sampling, AO, antialiasing, etc) I have no issues navigating the model in real time.  It renders fast as well for my needs.  If I needed more speed to increase render times I could buy a Mac Pro.  There are a lot of options there.  Is it as fast as the top end AMD PC spec?  No.  But Macs get the job done and probably quite well for a majority of FormZ users I would imagine.  I also don't have to waste time dealing with Windows.  We will probably see huge speed increases with the M chips.  The low end models in laptops are already faster than most every Intel chip in single speed computing and they have excellent multicore speed for being low end mobile chips.  I bet the new iMacs and eventual Mac Pro will be incredibly fast.  There might always be a faster PC build out there, but I bet that is only an issue for a small percentage of FormZ users.  I agree that there are frustrating things about being on the Mac platform, hardware customization being one of them.  But the benefits far outweigh the disadvantages, at least for me they do.  Integration between software/hardware, fluid transfer between phone/tablet/desktop, the best OS with the least amount of malware (by far), and from my experience hardly ever OS system crashes or even issues, configuration and setup is a breeze, and not that I care but the machines just look better.  Apple is still a very viable business ecosystem, especially for small business which I'm sure are the majority of FormZ users.  And FormZ runs on both platforms, so you can configure a top of the line PC if needed.  I doubt erasing Mac will at all benefit Autodessys in any way, nor would abandoning it help. In fact it would likely be very harmful as a lot of users are Mac based I would imagine.
     
    I agree with Chris that the best way to help is with very specific bug and feature request reports.  That and using the product to produce great work that can be shown to others.  
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