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UVWXYZ

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UVWXYZ last won the day on March 3

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  1. UVWXYZ

    Why form•z is not popular any more:

    Hi! Well, I do think that paid software should be paid, sorry to disappoint you. I did look for the local distributor and checked prices on their website only 8.5 was offered. As for now and for the purpose of testing, I am using this: I did not come here to trash this software at all, sorry, if it came across like that. Also, I am willing to switch software and if that produces costs, I'll have to pay them. Just for clarification. The free version is great in my opinion and I'll continue to watch it, but export is limited, which I understand. Sketchup on the other hand removed perpetual licenses, that was my initial motivation to look elsewhere and so I came here. But I do not need to be here and say anything, so have a nice day!
  2. UVWXYZ

    Why form•z is not popular any more:

    Dear moderator Chris! What a nice way to join this discussion! Just in case you did not read this sentence, I'll repeat it: "I tried to be friends with form•z since university, from 2000 on. It always seemed capable and even promising back then, but ended up being frustrating and tiresome." I could not care at all, but instead wrote down my experiences with YOUR preferred software. You might ignore them, read them or even reply. I did not personally insult anyone, it was not my intention to do so. So I think you, as a moderator, should do so as well. Some of the errors I found could have been eliminated instantly, and should have been already. And of course you know that, but instead blame me pointing at them. Answering your post really annoys me, so I'll try to keep my corrections and addendums short: - bad quality check of functions and tools: I should narrow that down to ui-design and typographical errors. - non consistent tool options (unlike c4d): each and every tool has different options in the panel, some even have no options at all, confusing in my opinion, but might get used to it. - interface not customizable enough, even in the pro version (unlike c4d, even rhino!): for me, this is simply not on par with other software. I tried to change a lot in the pro version in my testing phase, and version 9 seem to address some aspects, but is still not flexible enough. - very slow development (unlike blender): well, as every paid software will have to compete with free software, it simply is a necessity to develop fast and stable. - slow response to whishes from users (like many other companies, but most of them have a solid plug in/addon source) : well, if you disagree, ok, it does not seem to be the case for other users. - Some modern aspects of designing 3d like parametric, history- or node-based design (and a proper integrated renderer), which other software solutions have long used, are not covered here anyway! : by parametric I mean the possibility to stack objects and modifiers like in c4d (or in 3ds max) for example. The renderer: well, ok, it is an addon. - It is also not enough to offer state of the art technology (like sub-D), the tools have to evolve! : I meant "state of the art" (or at least newer) at the point of integration into the software and refinement afterwards: did the sub-d tools evolve after that? I do not get you at the tantrum dance nor does it interest me any more to deal with you in any way, just one comment You asked "How does ADS move forward with appealing to younger generations without alienating the rest of us?" The answer: ADS will not at all, but you will not ether.
  3. UVWXYZ

    Why form•z is not popular any more:

    In other news, but fitting right into this discussion: Affinity Designer, on sale 50% off: 27,99 € Affinity Photo, on sale 50% off: 27,99 € Affinity Publisher, on sale 50% off: 27,99 € Fast, stable and easy software, with Apple Silicon support results in a forum with 600.000 postings, and being a serious rival for adobe, finally. I seriously suggest, Serif should buy AutoDesSys. Or at least team up. Serif would enter the windows world and 3D, also get hold onto dwg, AutoDesSys would gain insight to a modern interface, programming style and integrate extended 2d layout capabilities. Serif form•z 2023 would cost 99 € / $ and blow sketchup into insignificance. btw, this is serif's mission statement: We started out in 1987 developing creative software for Windows and built up a decent suite of apps over a 20-year period. But there were problems. Apart from these legacy apps being locked into Windows, they were becoming bloated, hard to maintain and the core foundation of them was not built with consideration of the latest developments in hardware. So, we decided to start again. We threw all that old code away and began development of the Affinity range from scratch. It was a big gamble and turned into a massive project - it took the best part of 5 years from writing the first line of code to releasing Affinity Designer, our first Affinity app, in October 2014. Since then we’ve not looked back. We’ve now got a full creative suite of applications covering photo editing, desktop publishing and graphic design which have won the biggest awards available in the industry and have been adopted by over a million customers worldwide. This success has been great, but our main focus remains on pushing the boundaries of what is possible with creative apps. We love doing what we do, and we are just getting started.
  4. UVWXYZ

    Why form•z is not popular any more:

    Rhino is equally priced, but anyway: ok, I'll try to be positive: There is a niche for form•Z in the future, I do not have a doubt about that! The viewport itself feels responsive, intuitive, the display options are great, it seems light and something about it does feel positively retro (being not to complicated and straightforward). I just think it needs a certain push forward, and inspirations for that should come from (new) users as well.
  5. UVWXYZ

    Why form•z is not popular any more:

    You are addressing all the problems here, but you do not seem to get the whole picture: "obviously listening" = "I do not know for sure, but it seems so." (bad communication from ADS) "this interface issue": this is a mayor issue in my opinion: even the long time users do not understand the problem, maybe just because they are long time users. "rock solid program": I would not exclude all those small errors from quality check only because crashing all the time is even more annoying. "Not more bells and whistles or a pretty interface." Form follows function! We should know that and ADS should know as well! I never said I just demand a prettier UI!
  6. UVWXYZ

    Why form•z is not popular any more:

    To second this, look at that list, sort it by release date: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_computer-aided_design_software There are other errors in that list, but no one seems to care anyway. I can think of no reason anyone at autodessys spending half an hour at wikipedia to correct something like that. But this non effort policy is all over the place! Following is a short summary of my observations (mac based) on the rise: blender, Rhino, Bricscad, shapr3d, in 2d: all from affinity (in general: dedicated and active user user base, fast development, transparent as possible, first they copy, then they surpass competitors) steady: Cinema4d, Vectorworks, Archicad, maya, Houdini (loyal user base, steady development, good marketing, open communication) declining in significance: form•z, lightwave, cobalt, powercadd, turbocad (and many other small companies) (slow development, no recognisable future goals set, no transparency, rest on the laurels of the past) out of competition (in their own view): Autodesks products (the Microsoft of CAD, there's is an open letter going around the world), Sketchup, in 2d: adobe in general (these are only around anymore to make money out of their standards, as intransparent as possible, but heavily cloud- and paying plan dependent) This is the grave of any software development. form•z will not fall into that category, because they did not establish any standard. i am sure, loyal users will come out again with something like " you can set the palettes right for your personal taste, read the manual, other software is also flawed, you can call support, I do not mind about some icons, there is always version XY to fall back, etc etc..." It is embarrassing! Don't you want more new users of your "trusted software"? Does not sound like it! The goal should be set: als easy as Sketchup, as precise and versatile as rhino, as customisable as cinema4d, all that communicated as transparent as blender!
  7. UVWXYZ

    Why form•z is not popular any more:

    Natürlich, R2D2, aber ich glaube, AutoDesSys hatte schon genügend zeit, Weichen zu stellen. Oder zumindest alles auf Hochglanz zu bringen. translated: above is a proverb: "It's not what you say, but how you say it." Sure, R2D2, but I think, AutoDesSys has had enough time to set a new course. Or at least do a fresh polish.
  8. UVWXYZ

    Why form•z is not popular any more:

    Thank you, snow! Trying to be constructive, I might add: Not only do the icons of c4d follow a strict and easily understandable colour scheme, but the toolbars are extensively customizable, groupable, organizable. New tools can be highlighted by the developers, macros can have individual icons if needed. All Windows can be rearranged, changed in their appearance, filled with different tools etc. etc. The program colours can be adjusted to personal taste. And all these setups can even be shared (to a certain degree). I would not argue that all this is essential, but you put it right: That should not be the case with form•z, but in my opinion, it sadly is.
  9. UVWXYZ

    Why form•z is not popular any more:

    This is not product bashing, this is criticism. I do like parts of blender, but blender is not a 3d cad design software as form•z is. I also like reading, even manuals and I have no problems whatsoever with form•z's help. My problem is that I do think that the "intention" of how to use the software is dated, ineffective and has not evolved. Sure, you might think otherwise, but at least you can not deny the many inaccuracies in the UI, many errors in the translations (at least in German) and the slow development at a whole. As I tested the software along with writing here, my opinion did not change, it will also not change after reading the complete manual. The rtfm days are over, dear beta team tester for major brands. As I wrote in the op, I also do 3d modelling since about 1994, exactly that made me write that thread, and made others (AHDD Designer) do the same earlier.
  10. UVWXYZ

    Why form•z is not popular any more:

    So I just proved my point: I did not point out "a few minor aesthetic issues", I basically said that UI design has BASIC NON UNDERSTANDABLE ERRORS and VERY LITTLE IMPROVEMENT in years. I would not call for support or ask for a refund, I said "I tried to be friends" with your software multiple times, but failed. That was my motivation, and that is in fact the motivation for EVERY NEW CUSTOMER, just in case you did not know. In reading your answers again, I think they sound a bit you were personally offended, for which I am sorry, but also a bit arrogant, which might be the reason in the first place I thought my initial comment was necessary. It is not enough to have a devoted user base, it is even more important to reach out for new customers, who like your software from the first time on they use it. If they can be convinced easily, existing users will most probably benefit as well! You can not deny your market share is shrinking, or can you? The difference between form•z and autoCAD is that the latter is an industry standard, so their need for active development can reach zero for quite a long time. And when they need to catch up, they acquire a competitor. This, of course, can not be a possible roadmap for AutoDesSys! So, Tech, although support might be great, response to specific issues might be prompt, none of that was the issue here! But your answers solidified my assumptions: continued slow evolution and no aim for a greater plan! Dark mode will not save the future of form•z at all. Nor will "a number of UI improvements" do! My verdict now: form•z has stuck, but not yet realized so.
  11. UVWXYZ

    Why form•z is not popular any more:

    Sure, being sarcastic helps a lot! I did not claim so. My feeling is that development is slow, no ui goal can be seen. blender is far from being the industry standard in ui design, but for me it just seems that form•z keeps only keeps rearranging the chairs on the deck.
  12. UVWXYZ

    Why form•z is not popular any more:

    Hi Tech! Thank you for replying! Let me answer: I did not intend to claim that support would be slow or unresponsive, I would not suppose that (and also I did not ask any question or need support, so I can not say). Of course I did try the full version: as trial in version 9, and in ca. 2010-12 in an another office and 10 years before that at university (where to my knowledge it is not used anymore). Each time I admired the precision that can be achieved and the many tools offered (in comparison with other software at that time for that price). Also, I have no doubt that there are devoted followers of form•z, and I can totally understand them! But, and that is a big but, I do not feel that the software does evolve fast enough. And that many design errors, negligences and nuisances should have been eliminated 5, 10 or 20 years ago. If you think twinmotion and unreal connection are important: fine, but this market is cramped! It could be faster than sketchup, more precise than cinema, easier than blender and at least as capable as rhino. But it is neither. Nevertheless, I'll still be watching and I'll definitely try Version 10 again. To make a final point: things like that in the attached picture not only hurt my eyes: I can't work with such an attitude. I'd forget about any new feature but instead do a complete redesign of the interface!
  13. UVWXYZ

    Why form•z is not popular any more:

    Well, I am based just next to you: Greetings from Vienna! And I am serious. In fact, they could hire just about anyone.
  14. This is a short story: As an architect, I have tried to use every modeling software there is, from really old stuff like Moray (1991), 3D Studio, Ray Dream designer onwards, via 3ds max, cinema, blender, rhino, sketchup, etc., also all kinds of caad software. I even keep a sheep shaver emulation with Mac OS 8 and once in a while I go back this timemachine. It starts form•z 2.5 for example. I tried to be friends with form•z since university, from 2000 on. It always seemed capable and even promising back then, but ended up being frustrating and tiresome. Now I tested form•z again, this time in version 9 (in the free version) I know, it is a small company, but some aspects have not been addressed for ages: My main concern lies in the dated and non consistent interface design - bad menu typograpy (touches edges, not aligned, not consistent) (see blender or archicad) - bad icon design (unlike c4d for example) - bad translations (unlike c4d) - bad quality check of functions and tools (unlike rhino) - non consistent tool options (unlike c4d) - interface not customizable enough, even in the pro version (unlike c4d, even rhino!) - very slow development (unlike blender) - slow response to whishes from users (like many other companies, but most of them have a solid plug in/addon source) - Some modern aspects of designing 3d like parametric, history- or node-based design (and a proper integrated renderer), which other software solutions have long used, are not covered here anyway! - It is also not enough to offer state of the art technology (like sub-D), the tools have to evolve! to sum up: form•z is now a non appalling software in 2021 and this results in a small community and low interest from outside. I am serious: I could spend a day at AutoDeSys and bring that software into the 20th century. At least and at last. If the plan would be to keep this software's profile low and still make money from it: just go on. Attached are some random aspects of the interface, all small but in sum it is severely irritating that this should be non-beta 1.0 software, but instead celebrates 30th birthday 2021.
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