AHDD Designer got a reaction from Des in V-Ray 5 for form•Z Beta now available
FZ 9.2 beta and Vray 5 downloaded and installed.
I couldn't go into depth yet, but I played around a bit.
So much in the first instance:
The installation worked wonderfully right away.
The two betas work prima vista well.
The render is very fast.
I'm so excited about this that I'd like to announce it and encourage other users to test it.
iMac (Retina 5K, 27-inch, 2019)
3.6 GHz Intel Core i9
Mac OS 10.14.6 Mojave
AHDD Designer got a reaction from Alan Cooper in A way to make formZ more popular (but you won't like it...)
Will there actually be another statement from you on this topic at some point?
I mean by that:
What is the future of Form.Z?
What are the strategies?
I would still be very interested in this!
AHDD Designer reacted to setz in Suggestions for Improving the Drafting Module
7. Improved memory capacity for drawings with lots of imported images. Addition of transparency for images.
8. Option to automatically import both a scaled vector Hidden Line drawing and an internally generated Full Shaded image, cropped and aligned with the Hidden Line in one step. Ability to edit generated images in external image software and have the image update upon save, as is now possible in the Modeler with Texture Maps In Materials.
I'm including a simple sample sheet which shows how I typically set up drawings. Here is a link to the V6 file: https://we.tl/t-eNLZQwxCPQ
AHDD Designer reacted to ¢hris £und in Why form•z is not popular any more:
I think one issue to consider is: How does ADS move forward with appealing to younger generations without alienating the rest of us? New users are essential to the future. Not in just the direct sales, but it is the new users that push the envelope and brag/show their work. And, in turn show off the capabilities of their tools.
There are some details in which the original poster is correct on. And if ADS replied a bit defensively, I can't really blame them either. He/She was a bit of a prick about it.
Point out the issues, fine! (as he/she did so) But to throw a tantrum dance around those issues... well... prick comes to mind. (kleiner Schwanz) But, then again, look at me here, I am being a prick right back. Everybody has the right to be offended, so F the f off! (just a joke folks, though I was being serious about everybody has the right to be offended.)
Regarding the images posted in the OP:
1, yes this could resolve better.
2, I think this is new. Though, I do not keep old versions to back test against except version 6.7.x It certainly isn't something I have noticed before.
3, I am missing the problem here. Ok, the icons themselves don't appeal? Cry me an H20 Molecule.
4, Not sure, but the blue dots are admittedly rather vague, and the palette is larger than it needs be. On the second point, this is a modal dialog and thus has no impact on the operation of the program or it's use. So, is inconsequential IMHO. And, oddly, my palette of the same looks different. I have more options. Not sure what detailed version of the app He/She tested but it is possible that was a bug.
Regarding the more detailed points above the images, I will respond to the ones I disagree with. The others I do agree with.
- bad quality check of functions and tools (unlike rhino) This needs to be clarified. Without the specifics this does get into bashing that goes quite well with the tantrum dance later in the post.
- non consistent tool options (unlike c4d) This needs to be clarified. Without the specifics this does get into bashing that goes quite well with the tantrum dance later in the post. Don't different tools require different options? Or should we just have 1 tool and nothing but options.
- interface not customizable enough, even in the pro version (unlike c4d, even rhino!) I actually, kind of agree here, though much of what we do have now is recent and early on in 9 was a cause of much disruption, but has for the most part stabilized. Too, I am not sure how much of that is given to the free version vs Pro. If you used the free version, what do you know of the Pro version? (admittedly, I know nothing of the free version.)
- very slow development (unlike blender) Isn't blender open source? While certainly an issue that ADS has to contend with, this isn't a reasonable comparison. (I could be wrong)
- slow response to whishes from users (like many other companies, but most of them have a solid plug in/addon source) This, historically, I fundamentally disagree. I have put in a great deal of suggestions over the years. Many of them have been included and included immediately in the beta cycle. Not every idea that I have pushed their way has been included... but it would be arrogant of me (more than I already am) for me to assume that any and every idea I have fits with the goals and intent of the company. And quite frankly have any positive impact on other users than myself. So, sure, they could pack and pack and pack tools... that tends to go against the whole UI argument though. A better option is the script/plugin where we the users can do what we need for ourselves. This IMHO, has been a long resurrection in coming. But one I cannot blame ADS for. The API transition is not trivial. And to be clear, plug-ins have been available throughout, it is only the scripting that has been temporarily though significantly interrupted... But we are on our way back. Evangelizing by ADS and users to get developers on board, yea, that could use work.
- Some modern aspects of designing 3d like parametric, history- or node-based design (and a proper integrated renderer), which other software solutions have long used, are not covered here anyway! Parametric, really... Z is parametric. History/Node... yea I think most of us do wish for that. I suspect that Harkens back to some decisions many years ago. And is probably deep seeded into the code where such changes would be extremely disruptive at this point. Proper integrated renderer: Hmmm... My renderer is fully integrated. Albeit Dated since Autodesk purchased it and shelved it for the sole purpose of eliminated or at best hurting competition. V-ray is now available and there are others (yea, kind of) but this is an issue that if you want, pony up the cash.
- It is also not enough to offer state of the art technology (like sub-D), the tools have to evolve! First off, State of the Art sub-D?? Really? Catmull-clark sub-D which pretty sure is still what MODO uses (my personal favorite SDS modeler) harkens back all the way back to 1978... Not exactly State of the art. State of the art would have been T-Splines. Which ADS was actively working on integrating. But oops, Autodesk once again to the rescue with a lead life-saver. Pretty sure they shelved that too. Lastly on this issue. fZ isn't a dedicated SDS modeler. While I personally would like some additional functionality (hell yes, even one tool should be dropped as far as I am concerned.) So, what can we reasonably expect? State of the art? How many other SDS modelers can translate their SDS model to full on Solid object NURBS? I have no reasonable doubt there aren't any others... I don't think it is many. Last I looked (and, yes I am a bit out of date) Modo could not... Can Rhino? I will have to check, I really don't know.
The rest of the bullet points are fair... at least up to the Tantrum Dance. At that point, the OP lost reams of credibility.
P.S. I don't seem know know what a short story is.
AHDD Designer reacted to skybound13 in A way to make formZ more popular (but you won't like it...)
Chris’ post is really good. For me the best parts are the ones with the asterisks, I’ll comment on two of them.
Regarding the aging user base and how we have less time to play and experiment - that is so true in my own life. Like maybe 15 years ago I remember doing three whacked out designs in my own time (two residences and a downtown nightclub,) they were the coolest designs I’ve done and all three made nice additions to my portfolio. I’d love to do that sort of thing again but haven’t been able to fit it into my schedule. I read about YouTube tutorials on the forum and think, “Man, I’d love to do that…” but that is quickly followed by, “but I just don’t have the time with everything else going on.” I guess that’s an example of life getting in the way.
Regarding predicting demise, that is definitely not helpful. One thing critics need to be aware of is their motives - to help or to harm. snow put it well in a post in the thread “Why form•z is not popular any more:“, “Criticism is fine, but constructive criticism is better.” Even then maybe critics should consider reserving highly critical comments to a private message sent directly to ADS.
AHDD Designer reacted to ¢hris £und in A way to make formZ more popular (but you won't like it...)
There are a just a few things to consider here.
1. the iMac Pro was really merely a transition machine while they took way to damn long to come out with a Pro Tower.
2. The M1 in its debut looks impressive. And thus far, we only have the low power mobile chip to give comparisons to. The M1 beats anything currently in it's class. Qualcom's SnapDragon, is simply outclassed. (for now)
3. Microsofts ARM implementation up to this point is sub-par compared to intel/AMD offerings on their own side. Not so for the M1/Intel Comparison. So much so, that the ARM windows was Quasi-Ported over to the M1 mac to run in translation, and it runs better on an M1 than the Microsofts own SnapDragon derivative. I do not pretend this will stay this way. It won't take long for MS to have their WTF moments and get moving again. They can't afford to have another iPod/Zune or iPhone/windows mobile event, and I bet they know it. Ultimately, this is a good thing for both sides of the argument.
4. Yes, there is software that I have had to run that was elusively windows, and I am disappointed that Parallels/VMWare no longer (probably temporarily) have a place. I bet once MS beefs up their ARM hardware to match, the market for it will grow and software will make that transition.
5. As I understand, there is a fair amount of windows software that is not Native to WARM. Stifling the market for the hardware, thus stifling the market for the software, Recursively. This is likely to change now. As much as people do not like apple (often for merit,) they do change the industry, repeatedly.
6. Microsoft themselves have not committed to the ARM platform, thus giving rise to #5. It has been more of a hobby if you will. This too, is likely to change.
7. Microsoft did not really beat Apple to the ARM punch. The M1 and ostensibly further derivatives are in themselves derivatives from their phone chips they have been designing for quite some time. Apple licenses the instruction set, they design the chips on their own.
8. Yes, GPU has lagged historically, pathetically. However, even on the GPU integrated mobile chip, there is a significant boost. Though certainly not on par with discrete GPUs of Nvidia or AMD currently. For that we will just have to wait to see what they do.
9. For apple to push back into the PC market with their own chipset, is a pretty good sign of them showing commitment regardless of their other business models. I too do think that they let the Pro business slide and slide way too far. IMHO, they should have jumped ship from Intel a long time ago and embraced AMD or at least been willing to use the best option to fit their end goal (machine to machine) Should I B&M about MS and their foray into Business products? I mean really? A word processor, how lame! Or their AI devision? or Quantum computing, or WebServices/Servers? Hardware, Mice, keyboards, tablets, hybrids, AR glasses, tables.... yes tables? That means they have an industrial design team, or at least doles out money to have it done for them.
10. The car is still a rumor. And doubtful they will be designing building the chassis and other critical "Car" stuff.
11. Hate on apple all you want. Thats cool that you think that's cool. Damn, your so cool! However consider this. If it weren't for Apple or someone like them, Microsoft would not have needed to advance their products. And quite frankly, likewise. If Apple didn't have someone to rise up to, they never would have. If you haven't figured it out by now, let me in on a little secret. MS is like a grandpa hoarder. They have an extremely difficult time letting go of anything legacy. I sure do wish we could go back to MS Dos. Ah, the good-ol-days. You know, before CAD even existed on anything other than a Mainframe. 5.25" floppy drives oooh yea! Hell, my first computer had a cassette drive. I have even used a computer professionally that used paper punch tape (I "programmed" embroidery machines) (not quite far back enough to have used punch cards) I was pretty good at getting around a VAX/VMS. All legacy stuff, I am really honestly happy to be done with now that I know better.
While I am sure Apple and it's overwhelming willingness to drop legacy concepts is a thorn in ADSs side, as well as other developers. Apple or MS isn't ADSs problem.
*Marketing, yes, is a strong part of it. Much of their marketing used to be through Universities and students. That market of marketing doesn't appear to be viable any longer.
*Technologies, also a strong part of it. Web based platforms are getting stronger. There is a write once deliver anywhere model for you. Would it be worth their effort too do so? I do not know. Personally, I prefer native... but as hardware gets more capable, this may not be an issue in the future (maybe not now, my brain might just be legacy.)
* Open source and free(ish)ware. Many modelers get their feet wet these days on such "products" and have no need to move past them. This has taken much of the student market. In my opinion, ADS should embrace some of the OpenSource Base code to enhance the functionality. How about an open source Physics engine? I think Bullet is one. There is a lot out there that they could, I think, Capitalize on. Now that Python is in the works, this is all I will say about python in this discussion, there are tons of libraries that can be taken advantage of.
* Consolidation. Well, just think of Autodesk. They have so many products (and shelved products they have purchased.) Modo has changed hands at least twice now and into a conglomerate.
* Base philosophy. Things are changing. ADS is small enough to lift its head and see this. Though difficult. This is to their advantage. But it is up to them to do so. And Up to us to prod them to do so. Constructively, of course.
*** User Base. Yes, I mean us! We are a problem for ADS. Why, because we are also aging. We have less time to play and experiment and give word of mouth and build things just for the cool factor of it. The youth, that is what they do, and as they push forward, they also push forward their toolset. I am sure there are some younger folk here than I. Probably some real young ones too, say in their 30's or 40's. But these are going to be career people too. Not spending their free time pushing the envelope and showing off.... Showing off!!!! AKA word of mouth marketing.
* Predicting demise... Oh that helps. Here, let's create the impressions a company is unhealthy so nobody wants to buy in. Real responsible. It is like a politician telling America what to think by telling America what he thinks America thinks.. (Apologies to any anAmericans out there, but this is something our politicians do and it is effective over our citizenry of both parties. You may recognize the strategy in your homeland as well)
Picking one thing and pointing to it as "the" problem is quite frankly Myopic. And I say this not to defend Apple. It is just a simplistic and myopic mindset. Nobody will solve real problems with this form of thinking. This is meant as a constructive criticism, but take it however you like. You have the right to be offended.
If we want ADS and fZ to survive... Help them help you! Their last beta was open.Wide open. Test, give feedback, not bitchfests (though looking back, I am quite guilty of that too.) Often the bug reports aren't specific but overwhelmingly non-specific. Especially about the UI. And regardless, they have to make decisions. One group of people will want something one way and another will hate it... Deal with it! Or, better yet. Devise a solution at least in concept... don't just tell them something sucks. detail it. And only hope that it fits in with their intentions... don't expect it. I have suggested many things over the 27ish years of being a user... Many have been included, most have not. I deal. Which is why I love Py*** oops, so close!
Quit posting bug reports on the forum!! They have no way to track them long term. The forum just isn't built for it.
Let's quit being the fudy duddies we have become and show our passions like we used to. Quit bitching like old men on a street bench. Remember the days when we had self driven contests? (thanks Dan M! those were good times) Let's quit thinking we are of responsibility mean while pointing the finger anywhere and everywhere else.
Don't get me wrong, ADS has work to do. In some areas, a lot! I formally make myself available to ADS to offer my input, not demands. Should they have use for it.
Hah! I doubt anybody will read all of that. Can't blame anybody for that but me. Though about editing it down, but WTH.
AHDD Designer reacted to UVWXYZ in Why form•z is not popular any more:
In other news, but fitting right into this discussion:
Affinity Designer, on sale 50% off: 27,99 €
Affinity Photo, on sale 50% off: 27,99 €
Affinity Publisher, on sale 50% off: 27,99 €
Fast, stable and easy software, with Apple Silicon support results in a forum with 600.000 postings, and being a serious rival for adobe, finally.
I seriously suggest, Serif should buy AutoDesSys. Or at least team up.
Serif would enter the windows world and 3D, also get hold onto dwg, AutoDesSys would gain insight to a modern interface, programming style and integrate extended 2d layout capabilities.
Serif form•z 2023 would cost 99 € / $ and blow sketchup into insignificance.
btw, this is serif's mission statement:
We started out in 1987 developing creative software for Windows and built up a decent suite of apps over a 20-year period. But there were problems. Apart from these legacy apps being locked into Windows, they were becoming bloated, hard to maintain and the core foundation of them was not built with consideration of the latest developments in hardware.
So, we decided to start again. We threw all that old code away and began development of the Affinity range from scratch. It was a big gamble and turned into a massive project - it took the best part of 5 years from writing the first line of code to releasing Affinity Designer, our first Affinity app, in October 2014.
Since then we’ve not looked back. We’ve now got a full creative suite of applications covering photo editing, desktop publishing and graphic design which have won the biggest awards available in the industry and have been adopted by over a million customers worldwide.
This success has been great, but our main focus remains on pushing the boundaries of what is possible with creative apps. We love doing what we do, and we are just getting started.
AHDD Designer reacted to johnalexander1571 in Why form•z is not popular any more:
While you all are mentioning it, my company gives me that AEC suite from AD. And Maya and the engineers use SW. Nice, but in practice, formZ is basically the "brain" program for an octopus of functionality. I do just about everything in formZ, then if I need Revit, for Families, I go there. Need Maya, no prob. Even bring in Solidworks with STEP to make Revit Families. I think the reality of today's work is that you need various apps, but I still find formZ a clear winner for the returns.
At least in the manufacturing world, I don't know how someone would do this without formZ. If someone is sitting there trying to do what I do without it, they would be spending a criminal amount of time working with slower tools and doing many more workarounds. The money being saved in this context is substantial. All models accurate and solid! formZ is truly a jewel in the crown of apps when real work is concerned. It's proper place may be in that AEC suite. It works very well with it.
BUT, the idea behind the AEC package is you wind up paying a big yearly fee to these other guys. Past what a freelancer could do. Using those programs, though, and living in the real world, it becomes clear that you need to be able to use whatever end result program you need for whatever project you have. Notice the focus on making a certain amount of income.
It is actually very nice to have a niche place right now where you can still get permanent software and individual attention. The price for the support is very very reasonable.
As far as interface, I have used them all and done real projects and they all have their downs. They also all have forums where somewhere, folk complain about the interfaces.
formZ came from an altruistic pedigree that is different than the commercial giants out there. If there was a humanitarian project in which formZ was needed, formZ was provided for those at no cost. The creators of formZ started as educators and have never been focused on income. They have always been primarily concerned with what we design and build with formZ. That's what they have been watching.
There used to be a very formal architectural forum/blog that would have articles on new buildings, and if formZ was mentioned in the article as one of the apps used, it was included in that particular thread. I can't find this now for the life of me. Does anyone remember that too and know where it is? That blog was always awesome because there were all these new and wonderful buildings that used formZ in the design process somewhere. It was very inspiring.
AHDD Designer reacted to Hugo in A way to make formZ more popular (but you won't like it...)
I really like the comment Tech gave to explain about development. There are just too many people around who KNOW better and how it should be.
My compliments to TECH...
AHDD Designer reacted to R2D2 in Why form•z is not popular any more:
The issue is this dialog that I guess many longtime users have experienced;
„What 3D Software are you using“
Grumpy old man:
„Oh, what’s this ?“
„It’s software I can do a lot of cool stuff with; like ….this…that…also this …and even that too, plus this…., and… „(Continues)
„WTF - awesome - why didn’t´I even know about FormZ?“
AHDD Designer reacted to UVWXYZ in Why form•z is not popular any more:
To second this, look at that list, sort it by release date:
There are other errors in that list, but no one seems to care anyway. I can think of no reason anyone at autodessys spending half an hour at wikipedia to correct something like that.
But this non effort policy is all over the place!
Following is a short summary of my observations (mac based)
on the rise:
blender, Rhino, Bricscad, shapr3d, in 2d: all from affinity
(in general: dedicated and active user user base, fast development, transparent as possible, first they copy, then they surpass competitors)
Cinema4d, Vectorworks, Archicad, maya, Houdini
(loyal user base, steady development, good marketing, open communication)
declining in significance:
form•z, lightwave, cobalt, powercadd, turbocad (and many other small companies)
(slow development, no recognisable future goals set, no transparency, rest on the laurels of the past)
out of competition (in their own view):
Autodesks products (the Microsoft of CAD, there's is an open letter going around the world), Sketchup, in 2d: adobe in general
(these are only around anymore to make money out of their standards, as intransparent as possible, but heavily cloud- and paying plan dependent)
This is the grave of any software development. form•z will not fall into that category, because they did not establish any standard.
i am sure, loyal users will come out again with something like " you can set the palettes right for your personal taste, read the manual, other software is also flawed, you can call support, I do not mind about some icons, there is always version XY to fall back, etc etc..."
It is embarrassing! Don't you want more new users of your "trusted software"? Does not sound like it!
The goal should be set: als easy as Sketchup, as precise and versatile as rhino, as customisable as cinema4d, all that communicated as transparent as blender!
AHDD Designer reacted to Andrew West in Why form•z is not popular any more:
I have been equally as nervous for years now. But somehow this software seems to keep slowly developing a little at a time. For those of us that used it from the beginning we experienced a lot of activity and interaction that came fairly rapidly. Then things changed for a while. Now it seems like things come in fits and starts with long periods of inactivity perceived on our part. It should be noted that their latest addition of Twin Motion and Unreal are a major step toward keeping Form.z relevant in today's world. They are obviously listening to our requests and I am sure they are working on this interface issue. It just might not be their top priority for now. Personally, for me it is more important to have a rock solid program (which includes these issues) and the latest rendering engine so that I can keep my work relevant and competitive. Not more bells and whistles or a pretty interface. Those are the things that I convey to ADS, for now. As long as I can get my work done in an efficient manner I am willing to be patient. However, I am also not naive, so I do work on other programs just so that I can switch over if need be, which happens now from time to time as I use more outside assets in my work.
AHDD Designer got a reaction from vva in Why form•z is not popular any more:
My contributions on the subject of UI have nothing at all to do with «product bashing».
On the contrary: I have a deep commitment to Form.Z – and a deep concern.
Have a look: I got to know this software in 1995 during my industrial design studies.
I have been using it since then and it helps me earn my daily bread at my workplace.
I am dependent on this software.
That worries me a lot because I always fear that one day it will no longer exist.
It is even more likely that I won't be able to buy a new iMac because it will only run the latest software versions
And v9 is simply not yet suitable for daily work from my point of view.
For example: As a long-time user, it is simply problematic for me if I don't trust myself to place palettes differently
Because I never know whether they can still be found later.
Can you imagine what that's like for someone who is evaluating the product?
And then paired with a look that gives the feeling of having installed an old version...
Besides, it is not only the question of the «aesthetic design» of the UI that makes a well-maintained software today.
Take a look at how others do it:
There you can see perspectives as movies with the upcoming implementations.
There are regular tutorials on YouTube and in their own forums.
There is a download section that explains exactly which build is up to date and which issues have been fixed and which are still in the pipeline.
Personally, I am sad that «my» programme, in particular, cannot offer me a home, subjectively speaking.
AHDD Designer reacted to Andrew West in Why form•z is not popular any more:
It has been hard for me not to comment here so let me try to be constructive. I will stay away from technical suggestions.
Everyone has something that they feel needs immediate attention and everyone has their opinion. These opinions are obviously based on how one uses the program. My priorities are certainly not those of others here, nor should they be. So how do we form some sort of consensus on what needs to be addressed first and then get that to ADS in a constructive manner? It could even be something that the users vote on individually every quarter. Just random posts griping about one thing or another seems very inefficient and I can tell that it grates the dev team the wrong way. We do need them on our side.
I have used almost every other program out there since I started CAD work in 1985 at Cal Poly. Back in those days you had to type in coordinates in order to build a simple line. It also took a main frame at UCLA to calculate it (MegaCad). Fast forward to today and I can still see remnants of some of the old programs lingering around decades after they should have been abandoned. Max is a perfect example of a program that seems like a collection of plug-ins, scripts and add ons tacked onto a shell that has rarely changed. Given the work it takes to completely rethink the interface of an entire program it is obvious that it would take a lot of time and money. Otherwise others with deeper pockets would have tackled it years ago. Form.z has evolved several times over the last 30 years. Not all of us were happy with the changes but we learned to adapt (slowly sometimes). My main concern with how this is evolving is that with each additional change to the main program certain other parts and tools get corrupted. It then takes a lot of time to chase each issue and resolve them. By the time we get something really stable it seems like it's time to shake it all up again with a new release. As others have said it feels like we are on a constant Beta release. This is why I why, at the time, I refused to give up on 6.7 which was a fast production powerhouse for my office. Now, for the record I have tried many other programs thinking that maybe I might migrate over. I have not. Each has its own issues and quirks and I have crashed every one of them. It is just the nature of the beast that we will always be chasing the elusive "perfect program", whatever that may mean to you.
AHDD Designer reacted to AsOne in Why form•z is not popular any more:
Once setup my v9 UI is working well on Mac. I think it is a step in the right direction over v7 and v8. There are things to improve upon (I have posted about them and contacted support), but for me it works well once set up and I'm working very fast in v9 now. I really love the look and feel of the UI in general.
I have not used or seen other software, including many mentioned in this and other threads that make me think AutoDessys should be focused on a total UI rebuild. Much more important things to do IMHO. Plus from watching these and other similar threads in the forum there is no broad consensus on a UI look or features. For example I see nothing in the Blender look that appeals to me over FormZ. 3DSMax has done quite well given it's apparent repulsive UI. Cinema 4D looks well organized, but doesn't blow me away over FormZ.
If anything UI stability is the most pressing concern shared by everyone. I will take that over tweaking of fonts and icons.
In general I wish updates were more frequent, even if more incremental. However to say there has been very little improvement is incorrect.
What is the point of coming into the forum to simply trash a program you apparently don't even use, besides trolling. Just use something else that works for you.
AHDD Designer reacted to snow in Why form•z is not popular any more:
I share this sentiment. I use Cinema 4D and formZ equally in my day-to-day workflow and I find myself trying to learn how to model more effectively in Cinema simply because the UI is that much better.
Criticism is fine, but constructive criticism is better. I agree with your original post that the icon design is in need of a facelift. I'd love to see a streamlined look among the icons and I allude to how C4D uses color schemes to identify toolsets. Purple for modifiers, blue for primitives, and green for... mograph? I'm not sure what to call this toolset. The basic functions are all orange (select, move, rotate, point/line/poly). In formZ, the generate toolset is pretty solid, and I would argue that the subdivision edit tools are pretty effective only using one extra color for the icons. If I were to change these, I would dial back on the "shine" of the icon objects. they can still be 3D, but the whole gradient from white to dark blue is unnecessary and makes small icons look too busy. When you get into other toolsets (modify, measure, modify NURBS) there's a lot of other colors going on and it loses a sense of uniformity among the interface. It would be cool to see all "generate" "shapes" "primitives" so have one color scheme, modifiers to have another, and then all the editing tools just use the two color scheme like subD edit.
I would also like to see formZ ditch the "depressed icon" look that you see in the tool dock and the tool options. it's a pretty antiquated appearance and wastes precious pixels that could be used for larger, clearer icons. I think Cinema also nails this by just highlighting the active tool/functions in blue. it's super clean and easy to spot. Same with the red outline in the tool dock. Other programs probably use this approach as well, but I don't have them at my disposal to show as an example.
I know that these are simply cosmetic issues and 100% do NOT effect the functions of the program, which is why I don't spend much time posting about it. HOWEVER, I have tried other 3D software and I'm immediately repulsed by the cluttered UI (lookin' at you 3DS Max) which makes me never want to open that program again. I would suspect that formZ might have the same issue for new users who are borderline OCD designers that put a LOT of stock in aesthetic such as myself, but I could be wrong. SO.... is it imperative that formZ updates the interface to keep users? I don't think so. Would an interface overhaul help gather new users? I don't know the answer, but it's definitely worth a shot.
After all "good designers copy, great designers steal"
AHDD Designer reacted to UVWXYZ in Why form•z is not popular any more:
So I just proved my point:
I did not point out "a few minor aesthetic issues", I basically said that UI design has BASIC NON UNDERSTANDABLE ERRORS and VERY LITTLE IMPROVEMENT in years. I would not call for support or ask for a refund, I said "I tried to be friends" with your software multiple times, but failed. That was my motivation, and that is in fact the motivation for EVERY NEW CUSTOMER, just in case you did not know. In reading your answers again, I think they sound a bit you were personally offended, for which I am sorry, but also a bit arrogant, which might be the reason in the first place I thought my initial comment was necessary.
It is not enough to have a devoted user base, it is even more important to reach out for new customers, who like your software from the first time on they use it. If they can be convinced easily, existing users will most probably benefit as well!
You can not deny your market share is shrinking, or can you? The difference between form•z and autoCAD is that the latter is an industry standard, so their need for active development can reach zero for quite a long time. And when they need to catch up, they acquire a competitor. This, of course, can not be a possible roadmap for AutoDesSys!
So, Tech, although support might be great, response to specific issues might be prompt, none of that was the issue here! But your answers solidified my assumptions: continued slow evolution and no aim for a greater plan! Dark mode will not save the future of form•z at all. Nor will "a number of UI improvements" do!
My verdict now: form•z has stuck, but not yet realized so.
AHDD Designer reacted to kac in Why form•z is not popular any more:
I never understood the point of product bashing. It seems you like blender better, if so then why spend money on FormZ? Go back to blender and stick with it.
Personally I have no problems with FormZ here. I did take the time and read through the manual on the tools. Reading is a powerful function many don't bother and would rather flame a product than learn how to use it as it was intended. I have been doing 3d modeling since the early 90's, been on beta teams for major brands.
AHDD Designer reacted to UVWXYZ in Why form•z is not popular any more:
This is not product bashing, this is criticism.
I do like parts of blender, but blender is not a 3d cad design software as form•z is.
I also like reading, even manuals and I have no problems whatsoever with form•z's help.
My problem is that I do think that the "intention" of how to use the software is dated, ineffective and has not evolved.
Sure, you might think otherwise, but at least you can not deny the many inaccuracies in the UI, many errors in the translations (at least in German) and the slow development at a whole.
As I tested the software along with writing here, my opinion did not change, it will also not change after reading the complete manual.
The rtfm days are over, dear beta team tester for major brands.
As I wrote in the op, I also do 3d modelling since about 1994, exactly that made me write that thread, and made others (AHDD Designer) do the same earlier.