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  1. 6 points
    Des

    Why form•z is not popular any more:

    I chose FormZ many years ago because it was on the mac and thought it was the best out of a pile of other software I had worked on. Guess what? I would still choose FormZ over the rest even with it's quirks and shortcomings. I continue to make a living from it as my main package and would recommend it to anyone who wants to get into the 3d modelling business. I don't have most of the issues others have such as crashing and it's not because I'm an IT expert, 'cos I'm not. In my long time experience, I have found crashing to be caused from imported bad geometry and the such. Bad imported geometry is not necessarily caused by the software it was created on but mostly the creator. I agree that the interface needs some work in FormZ, mainly pallets arrangement etc., but I actually like the look and feel/icons etc., call me what you want. I'm actually excited about the dark mode in the next iteration. valthewu, I think you think you're just trying to help but tbh I think you are just making this forum a depressing place (sorry, most of your 10 posts have been negative). We'd all love to see FormZ doing well and competing with the big boys especially since we've invested in Fz (Just to point out FormZPro is a LOT less expensive than other software it's being compared to on this forum, I mean C4D is $3500, Max $1545 per year and without add ons!, Revit $2310 per year, SU $695 but isn't a patch on Fz). But I think ADS has done remarkably well considering who they compete with. I think the future is brighter for FormZ with the Twinmotion integration (along with the existing Vray & Maxwell). Everyones opinion is important here, but lets be more positive about FormZ, it has a hell of a lot more positives than negatives. Lets do more of sharing 3d modelling knowledge, WIPS etc. (if I was considering Fz as a new user, I wouldn't buy it based on all the moaning about it here which obviously doesn't help marketing). ADS have given us this forum for our own benefit to learn etc., not as a rooftop to shout from. Dezzz 😉
  2. 5 points
    AsOne

    Why form•z is not popular any more:

    Once setup my v9 UI is working well on Mac. I think it is a step in the right direction over v7 and v8. There are things to improve upon (I have posted about them and contacted support), but for me it works well once set up and I'm working very fast in v9 now. I really love the look and feel of the UI in general. I have not used or seen other software, including many mentioned in this and other threads that make me think AutoDessys should be focused on a total UI rebuild. Much more important things to do IMHO. Plus from watching these and other similar threads in the forum there is no broad consensus on a UI look or features. For example I see nothing in the Blender look that appeals to me over FormZ. 3DSMax has done quite well given it's apparent repulsive UI. Cinema 4D looks well organized, but doesn't blow me away over FormZ. If anything UI stability is the most pressing concern shared by everyone. I will take that over tweaking of fonts and icons. In general I wish updates were more frequent, even if more incremental. However to say there has been very little improvement is incorrect. What is the point of coming into the forum to simply trash a program you apparently don't even use, besides trolling. Just use something else that works for you.
  3. 4 points
    If Mac is dropped I would also drop FormZ. The LAST thing FormZ should do is pander to an utterly inferior OS. All the savings from a faster GPU would be wasted dealing with windows. Especially once the new iMac and MacPro's running M chips are released! I willing to bet FormZ's users are more Mac based than your 90/10 split. I can't take seriously everyone whining about the look of the UI who runs Windows.
  4. 4 points
    I have been equally as nervous for years now. But somehow this software seems to keep slowly developing a little at a time. For those of us that used it from the beginning we experienced a lot of activity and interaction that came fairly rapidly. Then things changed for a while. Now it seems like things come in fits and starts with long periods of inactivity perceived on our part. It should be noted that their latest addition of Twin Motion and Unreal are a major step toward keeping Form.z relevant in today's world. They are obviously listening to our requests and I am sure they are working on this interface issue. It just might not be their top priority for now. Personally, for me it is more important to have a rock solid program (which includes these issues) and the latest rendering engine so that I can keep my work relevant and competitive. Not more bells and whistles or a pretty interface. Those are the things that I convey to ADS, for now. As long as I can get my work done in an efficient manner I am willing to be patient. However, I am also not naive, so I do work on other programs just so that I can switch over if need be, which happens now from time to time as I use more outside assets in my work.
  5. 3 points
    My contributions on the subject of UI have nothing at all to do with «product bashing». On the contrary: I have a deep commitment to Form.Z – and a deep concern. Have a look: I got to know this software in 1995 during my industrial design studies. I have been using it since then and it helps me earn my daily bread at my workplace. I am dependent on this software. That worries me a lot because I always fear that one day it will no longer exist. It is even more likely that I won't be able to buy a new iMac because it will only run the latest software versions And v9 is simply not yet suitable for daily work from my point of view. For example: As a long-time user, it is simply problematic for me if I don't trust myself to place palettes differently Because I never know whether they can still be found later. Can you imagine what that's like for someone who is evaluating the product? And then paired with a look that gives the feeling of having installed an old version... Besides, it is not only the question of the «aesthetic design» of the UI that makes a well-maintained software today. Take a look at how others do it: There you can see perspectives as movies with the upcoming implementations. There are regular tutorials on YouTube and in their own forums. There is a download section that explains exactly which build is up to date and which issues have been fixed and which are still in the pipeline. Personally, I am sad that «my» programme, in particular, cannot offer me a home, subjectively speaking.
  6. 3 points
    I never understood the point of product bashing. It seems you like blender better, if so then why spend money on FormZ? Go back to blender and stick with it. Personally I have no problems with FormZ here. I did take the time and read through the manual on the tools. Reading is a powerful function many don't bother and would rather flame a product than learn how to use it as it was intended. I have been doing 3d modeling since the early 90's, been on beta teams for major brands.
  7. 2 points
    i'm fairly certain formZ is primarily written on the mac (from it's conception!) and then ported (probably not the correct term) to windows. sooo to improve efficiency between versions, it's the opposite of what you're positing lol
  8. 2 points
    It has been hard for me not to comment here so let me try to be constructive. I will stay away from technical suggestions. Everyone has something that they feel needs immediate attention and everyone has their opinion. These opinions are obviously based on how one uses the program. My priorities are certainly not those of others here, nor should they be. So how do we form some sort of consensus on what needs to be addressed first and then get that to ADS in a constructive manner? It could even be something that the users vote on individually every quarter. Just random posts griping about one thing or another seems very inefficient and I can tell that it grates the dev team the wrong way. We do need them on our side. I have used almost every other program out there since I started CAD work in 1985 at Cal Poly. Back in those days you had to type in coordinates in order to build a simple line. It also took a main frame at UCLA to calculate it (MegaCad). Fast forward to today and I can still see remnants of some of the old programs lingering around decades after they should have been abandoned. Max is a perfect example of a program that seems like a collection of plug-ins, scripts and add ons tacked onto a shell that has rarely changed. Given the work it takes to completely rethink the interface of an entire program it is obvious that it would take a lot of time and money. Otherwise others with deeper pockets would have tackled it years ago. Form.z has evolved several times over the last 30 years. Not all of us were happy with the changes but we learned to adapt (slowly sometimes). My main concern with how this is evolving is that with each additional change to the main program certain other parts and tools get corrupted. It then takes a lot of time to chase each issue and resolve them. By the time we get something really stable it seems like it's time to shake it all up again with a new release. As others have said it feels like we are on a constant Beta release. This is why I why, at the time, I refused to give up on 6.7 which was a fast production powerhouse for my office. Now, for the record I have tried many other programs thinking that maybe I might migrate over. I have not. Each has its own issues and quirks and I have crashed every one of them. It is just the nature of the beast that we will always be chasing the elusive "perfect program", whatever that may mean to you.
  9. 2 points
    I share this sentiment. I use Cinema 4D and formZ equally in my day-to-day workflow and I find myself trying to learn how to model more effectively in Cinema simply because the UI is that much better. Criticism is fine, but constructive criticism is better. I agree with your original post that the icon design is in need of a facelift. I'd love to see a streamlined look among the icons and I allude to how C4D uses color schemes to identify toolsets. Purple for modifiers, blue for primitives, and green for... mograph? I'm not sure what to call this toolset. The basic functions are all orange (select, move, rotate, point/line/poly). In formZ, the generate toolset is pretty solid, and I would argue that the subdivision edit tools are pretty effective only using one extra color for the icons. If I were to change these, I would dial back on the "shine" of the icon objects. they can still be 3D, but the whole gradient from white to dark blue is unnecessary and makes small icons look too busy. When you get into other toolsets (modify, measure, modify NURBS) there's a lot of other colors going on and it loses a sense of uniformity among the interface. It would be cool to see all "generate" "shapes" "primitives" so have one color scheme, modifiers to have another, and then all the editing tools just use the two color scheme like subD edit. I would also like to see formZ ditch the "depressed icon" look that you see in the tool dock and the tool options. it's a pretty antiquated appearance and wastes precious pixels that could be used for larger, clearer icons. I think Cinema also nails this by just highlighting the active tool/functions in blue. it's super clean and easy to spot. Same with the red outline in the tool dock. Other programs probably use this approach as well, but I don't have them at my disposal to show as an example. I know that these are simply cosmetic issues and 100% do NOT effect the functions of the program, which is why I don't spend much time posting about it. HOWEVER, I have tried other 3D software and I'm immediately repulsed by the cluttered UI (lookin' at you 3DS Max) which makes me never want to open that program again. I would suspect that formZ might have the same issue for new users who are borderline OCD designers that put a LOT of stock in aesthetic such as myself, but I could be wrong. SO.... is it imperative that formZ updates the interface to keep users? I don't think so. Would an interface overhaul help gather new users? I don't know the answer, but it's definitely worth a shot. After all "good designers copy, great designers steal"
  10. 2 points
    AsOne

    Why form•z is not popular any more:

    How about instead of one day you take a week and deliver us a perfect 3D software...I'll be waiting...
  11. 1 point
    In terms of AutoDesSys' products what keeps formZ competitive in the rendering arena is their V-Ray plug-in. Interestingly what makes V-Ray powerful is it's support for NVIDIA - CUDA and RTX, and neither of these technologies is available on the Mac. PC's are 90% of the market, Macs are 10%. As long as AutoDesSys continues to support the Mac it means every time they write code they have to write it twice, and test it twice, and ensure cross platform compatibility of the file formats. So, it stands to reason that formZ could innovate twice as fast if their software engineering effort was cut by 50%. Considering advanced rendering technologies are only available on Windows it is clearly the platform that must survive. As I said, you won't like to hear this, but the truth is that if you want formZ to innovate faster then dropping support for the Mac would go a long way to accomplishing this goal.
  12. 1 point
    AsOne

    Palette Window Workaround

    For single monitor use I keep a bank of minimized palettes at the top of my modeling window and keep the Tool Options + Inspector at the top of the right side dock :
  13. 1 point
    I agree completely, but man are you going to get some flak for saying this. Apple products continue their cult like following in spite of everything.
  14. 1 point
    The issue is this dialog that I guess many longtime users have experienced; Script: Actor 1: „What 3D Software are you using“ Grumpy old man: „FormZ“ „Oh, what’s this ?“ „It’s software I can do a lot of cool stuff with; like ….this…that…also this …and even that too, plus this…., and… „(Continues) „WTF - awesome - why didn’t´I even know about FormZ?“
  15. 1 point
    To second this, look at that list, sort it by release date: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_computer-aided_design_software There are other errors in that list, but no one seems to care anyway. I can think of no reason anyone at autodessys spending half an hour at wikipedia to correct something like that. But this non effort policy is all over the place! Following is a short summary of my observations (mac based) on the rise: blender, Rhino, Bricscad, shapr3d, in 2d: all from affinity (in general: dedicated and active user user base, fast development, transparent as possible, first they copy, then they surpass competitors) steady: Cinema4d, Vectorworks, Archicad, maya, Houdini (loyal user base, steady development, good marketing, open communication) declining in significance: form•z, lightwave, cobalt, powercadd, turbocad (and many other small companies) (slow development, no recognisable future goals set, no transparency, rest on the laurels of the past) out of competition (in their own view): Autodesks products (the Microsoft of CAD, there's is an open letter going around the world), Sketchup, in 2d: adobe in general (these are only around anymore to make money out of their standards, as intransparent as possible, but heavily cloud- and paying plan dependent) This is the grave of any software development. form•z will not fall into that category, because they did not establish any standard. i am sure, loyal users will come out again with something like " you can set the palettes right for your personal taste, read the manual, other software is also flawed, you can call support, I do not mind about some icons, there is always version XY to fall back, etc etc..." It is embarrassing! Don't you want more new users of your "trusted software"? Does not sound like it! The goal should be set: als easy as Sketchup, as precise and versatile as rhino, as customisable as cinema4d, all that communicated as transparent as blender!
  16. 1 point
    My favorite 2d cad package (PowerCADD) already seems to be on its way out and FormZ is making me nervous, very nervous!
  17. 1 point
    This is my biggest fear!
  18. 1 point
    R2D2

    Why form•z is not popular any more:

    Its also a Win vs. OS X appearance issue imo. Icon size, double checkboxes, space, frames... When I open Fz on Win I get to better understand some of the GUI criticism here - which do not apply 1:1 on OS X, where it seems to work a lot better. Yes I`d like some interface improvements and fresh icons (preferably an option again to swap for more "classic" simplified icon design, as we used to have, standard one column on the left), but for OS X I think it works quite well and above all its stable.
  19. 1 point
    Natürlich, R2D2, aber ich glaube, AutoDesSys hatte schon genügend zeit, Weichen zu stellen. Oder zumindest alles auf Hochglanz zu bringen. translated: above is a proverb: "It's not what you say, but how you say it." Sure, R2D2, but I think, AutoDesSys has had enough time to set a new course. Or at least do a fresh polish.
  20. 1 point
    valthewu

    Why form•z is not popular any more:

    Thank you, snow! Trying to be constructive, I might add: Not only do the icons of c4d follow a strict and easily understandable colour scheme, but the toolbars are extensively customizable, groupable, organizable. New tools can be highlighted by the developers, macros can have individual icons if needed. All Windows can be rearranged, changed in their appearance, filled with different tools etc. etc. The program colours can be adjusted to personal taste. And all these setups can even be shared (to a certain degree). I would not argue that all this is essential, but you put it right: That should not be the case with form•z, but in my opinion, it sadly is.
  21. 1 point
    This is not product bashing, this is criticism. I do like parts of blender, but blender is not a 3d cad design software as form•z is. I also like reading, even manuals and I have no problems whatsoever with form•z's help. My problem is that I do think that the "intention" of how to use the software is dated, ineffective and has not evolved. Sure, you might think otherwise, but at least you can not deny the many inaccuracies in the UI, many errors in the translations (at least in German) and the slow development at a whole. As I tested the software along with writing here, my opinion did not change, it will also not change after reading the complete manual. The rtfm days are over, dear beta team tester for major brands. As I wrote in the op, I also do 3d modelling since about 1994, exactly that made me write that thread, and made others (AHDD Designer) do the same earlier.
  22. 1 point
    Tech

    Lost VRAY...

    If you have not already done so, please email support@formz.com for fastest response to these issues and we can properly address the specifics of your environment. Having said that, here are a few things to try/check. Re-install V-Ray and the license server. The original email that you received from Chaosgroup has links to the latest versions. Check that the V-Ray plugins are loading in form•Z. Go Extensions > Extension Manager. You should see a number of plugins with V-Ray in their name (you may need to scroll down the list). Be sure they are enabled (have a check mark). If they do not show in the list, then check the plugins search paths (Search Paths button). "/Applications/formZ 9/Plugins" on macOS and "\Program Files\formZ 9\Plugins" for Windows should be in the list of paths and enabled (check mark). If it is not listed, you can add the path by clicking the '+' button on the left and navigating to the directory and selecting "Open". Then you just need to click OK until form•Z closes itself. Upon the next launch of form•Z you should see the plugins active! More trouble shooting can be found in the V-Ray for formZ manual: http://www.formz.com/products/vray/V-Ray_Documentation/index.htm#t=Trouble_Shooting.htm
  23. 1 point
    So I just proved my point: I did not point out "a few minor aesthetic issues", I basically said that UI design has BASIC NON UNDERSTANDABLE ERRORS and VERY LITTLE IMPROVEMENT in years. I would not call for support or ask for a refund, I said "I tried to be friends" with your software multiple times, but failed. That was my motivation, and that is in fact the motivation for EVERY NEW CUSTOMER, just in case you did not know. In reading your answers again, I think they sound a bit you were personally offended, for which I am sorry, but also a bit arrogant, which might be the reason in the first place I thought my initial comment was necessary. It is not enough to have a devoted user base, it is even more important to reach out for new customers, who like your software from the first time on they use it. If they can be convinced easily, existing users will most probably benefit as well! You can not deny your market share is shrinking, or can you? The difference between form•z and autoCAD is that the latter is an industry standard, so their need for active development can reach zero for quite a long time. And when they need to catch up, they acquire a competitor. This, of course, can not be a possible roadmap for AutoDesSys! So, Tech, although support might be great, response to specific issues might be prompt, none of that was the issue here! But your answers solidified my assumptions: continued slow evolution and no aim for a greater plan! Dark mode will not save the future of form•z at all. Nor will "a number of UI improvements" do! My verdict now: form•z has stuck, but not yet realized so.
  24. 1 point
    Tech

    Why form•z is not popular any more:

    Thank you for taking the time to post, however we can only wonder what you motivations are. We can find no communication with our sales or support teams from you so you have no basis for your comment that we are not responsive. Obviously you do not like some aesthetics of the software and you are entitled to your opinion. You are also basing your comments on form•Z free which only has a small percentage of the features found in form•Z pro. Many professionals use form•Z daily for productive modeling so it is clearly not "appalling software" to them. You do point out a few minor aesthetic issues that we are already working on (along with support for dark mode), but frankly we find delivering new technologies like the recent TwinMotion/Unreal interface much more interesting and important to our users.
  25. 1 point
    Alan Cooper

    Why isn't formz more popular?

    Form Z pro is brilliant for woodworkers. It covers a very wide spectrum, so there are some special tools we appreciate and others we never use. Marketing to specific audiences, pointing out features of specific advantage is key. A few years ago there was a big push for V-Ray, yet not everyone needs that, I don't need realism, just a good impression is enough. The features I as a woodworker really appreciate are the extremely fast basic modelling with good viewing controls, excellent object and group management, information management, renamer extension, and I just feel very at home and productive with it. Form Z is still very relevant today and probably always will be, it just lacks the marketing to do it justice. I can't speak for V9 but as far as V8.6 is concerned, it is a reliable essential tool for me, (you get to know what might cause a crash or hang, and it is much improved as far as that is concerned.) I see no good reason to look elsewhere and would never go back to Sketchup. I expect that part of the reason why there is so little activity on the forum is that many users just get on with their working routine, most problems have already been covered and rectified. Lack of activity doesn't attract new users though, better marketing and especially You Tube, as well as social media is essential to getting that valuable stream of new users. I doubt it has to be any more expensive than employing someone who can both use the program and do social media. I expect that investment would pay dividends. I hope so because I would love to see FormZ to take a higher profile and become useful to more users. Definately underrated.
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