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#21 AC1000

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Posted 06 March 2018 - 05:48 AM

bbuxton unfortunately you are right. Sketchup and Rhino are the programs that people are using. 

 

FormZ has a few great tools, best in industry definitely. Push n Pull tool on solids, offset tools with insert option, autogrid with lock option, fast drag n drop method with materials, robust extended tool and ability to copy paste topologies.

 

I love Rhino but in Rhino you have to use three or four commands to achieve the same than in FormZ. And the handling of materials is clumsy in Rhino.

 

Sketchup is a different story. Modelling method is annoying, but it is very fast and OpenGL mode is nice with bright colours, crisp shadows and clean lines. And you can export crips views to Illustrator. Now I have to export FZ models to SU if I need nice concept graphics or "toon" rendering.

 

Now Rhino is my main modelling program because you can link both FZ (step or dwg) and SU (native) files into it as blocks. And the main model will update constantly. The disadvantage is the poor material management in Rhino.

 

FormZ could easily do all the things mentioned above, but now there is too many bugs, bad export import plugins, UI problems and so on.

 

Lets hope FormZ 9 has new clean code, nice UI and robust import export plugins.


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#22 snow

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Posted 06 March 2018 - 01:37 PM

listing the pros and cons of comparing Sketchup, formZ and Rhino is like a never-ending battle of rock, paper, scissors.  


Edited by snow, 06 March 2018 - 01:37 PM.

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#23 AC1000

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Posted 06 March 2018 - 03:05 PM

listing the pros and cons of comparing Sketchup, formZ and Rhino is like a never-ending battle of rock, paper, scissors.  

Thats true. I have them all. There is only one modeler capable of handling true solid object modeling, surface modeling and nurbs: FormZ.


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#24 setz

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Posted 06 March 2018 - 09:56 PM

Rock Paper Scisors Lizard Spock.
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#25 AC1000

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Posted 07 March 2018 - 05:48 AM

If AutoDessys just read all of my great ideas, FormZ would be the best modeling tool ever. Some of my ideas are even free and readable in discussion forums!  :P


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#26 FZnoob

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Posted 07 March 2018 - 10:25 AM

If AutoDessys just read all of my great ideas, FormZ would be the best modeling tool ever. Some of my ideas are even free and readable in discussion forums!  :P

 I can't help but think it all comes down to developmental $$$.


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#27 Shibui Design

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Posted 07 March 2018 - 12:45 PM

 I can't help but think it all comes down to developmental $$$.

I fear you are correct. It seems there's not much energy or $$ going into our favorite 3D modeler and that's a shame. My sense is the user base is also shrinking. Hope I'm wrong.


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#28 FZnoob

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Posted 07 March 2018 - 12:51 PM

The general reaction I get when I tell someone my company uses  FZ is "what?".

Most people have never even heard of it.



#29 ASONE

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Posted 07 March 2018 - 01:29 PM

I hope it isn't shrinking.  I shudder to think about switching over the SketchUp or Rhino.  It is true I am met with disbelief when I tell people I use FormZ.  They don't know that they are missing!  


FormZ PRO v8.5.  2017 iMac 4.0 GHz quad core i7 24MB RAM and a 2015 Macbook Pro quad core i7 16MB RAM, Modern Architecture in Boulder and Denver Colorado www.ASONEarchitecture.com 


#30 AC1000

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Posted 07 March 2018 - 03:37 PM

The forums are pretty quiet nowadays. Vray has been a big achievement. However, did the product get too late for the community? 

 

Software manufacturers have surprised with the desire to combine their programs' ability to collaborate with others. Graphisoft's Archicad and McNeels Rhino with Grasshopper are one of the success stories. Bidirectional Live link system is great between AC and Rhino. FormZ could be one party in this kind of project. The ability to link files is important in such a case.

 



#31 ASONE

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Posted 07 March 2018 - 04:55 PM

I actually just posted to the Suggestions forum requesting CAD file referencing capabilities.  100% agree that the ability of import/export and FormZ to communicate with other programs is essential and needs improvement.  I can only speak as an architect, but linking between programs is utterly crucial.  I would rather see FormZ work towards better communication than try and become some a program that thinks it can do it all.  Layout might work for simple projects, but for putting together a full set of architectural construction documents requires something much more robust, IMO.  I would rather FormZ keep progressing in the modeling, visualization, & speed departments rather than trying to become a BIM program or trying to be the program where one can full annotate a set of drawings in.  Leave that stuff to other programs and work on the linking and communication.  The resources required to take on REVIT, ArchiCAD, AECOsim, and Vectorworks would be A LOT.  Even to bring Layout up to par with AutoCAD and Vectorworks would be a monumental leap.  I hope FormZ sticks to its strengths of modeling, visualization (especially now with V-Ray), and speed.  The Archicad-Rhino link sounds intriguing.  Not that I want to switch over, but the idea of two linked products is enticing. 

 

Layout has been helpful since I can do a one time DWG export from layout of all the essential views I need (plans, elevations, sections, details) at DWG 1:1 scale, set relative to 0,0,0 coordinates.  Vectorworks (which is what I use for 2D drawing production, dimensions, notes, etc...) has a reference option for DWG.  Using Layout is going to solve a lot of my communication issues.  However it only goes one way FormZ to Vectorworks.  Every time I change the floor plan in Vectorworks I have to reimport into FormZ.  Yes it works importing DWG info into FormZ, but the process is not fluid because of the lack of any references.  A reference option would be a HUGE upgrade.  A direct link could be amazing (depending on how it is implemented). 

 

Support:  Contact Nemetschek and lets get linked up!  Shamless plug since Vectorworks is made by Nemetschek.  It also works on both Mac and PC.


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FormZ PRO v8.5.  2017 iMac 4.0 GHz quad core i7 24MB RAM and a 2015 Macbook Pro quad core i7 16MB RAM, Modern Architecture in Boulder and Denver Colorado www.ASONEarchitecture.com 


#32 AC1000

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Posted 08 March 2018 - 02:47 AM

ASONE, you are right. And actually Graphisoft/Archicad is also part of Nemetschek Group.

 

BIM is already the industry of a few companies. Archicad, Revit and a few other programs have left flexible modeling to others and focused on linking free-form objects to BIM system.
 

 

Moreover, BIM takes extreme amount of resources from the machine due to the maintenance of the database. Fluent modeling is often clumsy with these programs. Creative design is not natural with BIM programs. But in production it is imperative.


#33 ASONE

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Posted 08 March 2018 - 12:38 PM

Agreed.  That is why I'm trying to maximize my use of FormZ through the entire project.  I have worked at several firms where we worked in SketchUp and then also built a BIM model based on the SketchUp.  Problem is the design keeps modifying throughout the project.  There is a constant push/pull between the fast conceptual model and the slow to build and modify but information dense BIM model.  The BIM model was always out of date.  I found the process very frustrating.  Therefore I'm only using a 3D FormZ model through the project.  No BIM for now.  Granted I'm mostly doing single family residential so it isn't too complex and doesn't require integration with consultant models.  As we move forward to BIM being the default I hope FormZ can keep pace.  I hope it does that through linking and communication, not by trying to become a BIM program itself.


FormZ PRO v8.5.  2017 iMac 4.0 GHz quad core i7 24MB RAM and a 2015 Macbook Pro quad core i7 16MB RAM, Modern Architecture in Boulder and Denver Colorado www.ASONEarchitecture.com 


#34 kim

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Posted 10 March 2018 - 03:21 PM

Having lots of the buggy problems mentioned in this discussion.   Looked at my version number and saw that it is the buggy one (build 10017).  So went to download page and downloaded latest update.  For some stupid reason the newly updated FZ file will not open???

 

Anyone else having this problem?

 

Thanks



#35 Hugo

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Posted 12 March 2018 - 01:21 PM

Today i spoke with a contractor to build a house I designed. I use the same workflow as you Asone, using FormZ 3D modeller as long as possible in the design and council permission process. I showed him my 3D model and he became very enthusiastic. This because my 3D model will help them in the building planning process. We spoke about BIM too. I do not believe in BIM as it is developed nowadays, because its primary a cost related database. In second mostly modeling in 2,5D. Here i believe FMZ comes in as a very good real 3D modeler. If ADS is focusing on certain issues, like printing in PDF, solve export and import errors and finally make Information Management more useful, then we do not need BIM as it is the way it is today. A good 3D model should be primarily, then the database! ADS has it nearly working! I believe.... but, solve all bugs first!!!

VANDENBOOMEN-ARCHITECTen...

 

MACOS 10.13.3 HIGH SIERRA | Form Z 8.6.0.2 | Vectorworks 2018 SP | AutoCad 2018 LT | Maxwell Render 4.2.0.x | Thea Render | Renderzone | Affinity Photo and Designer

Mac Pro late 2013 8-core 3.0Ghz 32Gb RAM, 2x FirePro D500 3GB | MacBook Pro Retina 15" mid 2014 i7 2.8Ghz 16Gb RAM, Nvidia GeForce GT 750M 2Gb+Intel Iris

Mac Pro mid 2010 12-core 3,46Ghz 96Gb RAM, SSD | Mac Mini mid 2010 2,4Ghz 2-core 16Gb RAM, Nvidia GeForce 320M 256MB | Cinema Display 27" 2560x1440 | LG 31" 4K 4096x2160


#36 FZnoob

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Posted 12 March 2018 - 02:29 PM

Kim, Did you do the "update" or the "full download"?

The updater was still linked to 10017 and the full download was to 10025 (which STILL has some bugs, but not as bad).



#37 Hugo

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Posted 12 March 2018 - 03:51 PM

The full has build 10027 version 8.6.0.2


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VANDENBOOMEN-ARCHITECTen...

 

MACOS 10.13.3 HIGH SIERRA | Form Z 8.6.0.2 | Vectorworks 2018 SP | AutoCad 2018 LT | Maxwell Render 4.2.0.x | Thea Render | Renderzone | Affinity Photo and Designer

Mac Pro late 2013 8-core 3.0Ghz 32Gb RAM, 2x FirePro D500 3GB | MacBook Pro Retina 15" mid 2014 i7 2.8Ghz 16Gb RAM, Nvidia GeForce GT 750M 2Gb+Intel Iris

Mac Pro mid 2010 12-core 3,46Ghz 96Gb RAM, SSD | Mac Mini mid 2010 2,4Ghz 2-core 16Gb RAM, Nvidia GeForce 320M 256MB | Cinema Display 27" 2560x1440 | LG 31" 4K 4096x2160


#38 FZnoob

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Posted 13 March 2018 - 05:43 AM

Yes, 10027. Excuse my typo.

In any case STILL buggy.



#39 kim

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Posted 14 March 2018 - 09:18 AM

Thanks FZnoob, I have now updated to the latest build.  The problems I was having with version 10017 not repeating.

 

But I have found that build 10027 takes longer to open a file but once the file is open all is okay.  

 

Running on iMac 5K, 27 inch late 2015 with 4GHz Intel core i7, high sierra version 10.13.3

 

 



#40 kim

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Posted 14 March 2018 - 09:22 AM

Hugo,

 

We got into this discussion last year but due to time constraints I dropped the ball.

 

I agree with the points you make above.

 

 One day if ADS could set up a video conference where we could all share our work processes, I would love to participate.

 

 






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