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#1 jeffgrune

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Posted 15 November 2017 - 01:29 PM

I am running into big problems with Components. A couple of years ago, I made a run at switching over to 8.X, but ran into Component problems, so I went back to using 6.5. I've been using formZ for 20 years and the Symbol system was always reliable. Its editability  improved over the years. Files with placed symbols were compact. The Symbol Library file could be opened, edited and the changes would be reflected in all instances of the symbol anywhere it was placed.

My principal client has hundreds of products that are updated regularly. I have been able to reliably swap out multiple Symbol instances with instances of other products. 

Anticipating the end of support for 32-bit applications, I am again trying to transition from the tried-and-true FormZ 6.5 to the 64-bit FormZ 8.5. The faster shaded working render and ability to RenderZone larger scenes are welcome improvements. 

Now, with the Component system, every placed Component becomes embedded, increasing the file size. What was a 3 MB file in FormZ 6.5 has become a 202 MB file in FormZ 8.5. Changing a layer a Component is on brings a dialog about changing the original Component. It shouldn't matter to the original what layer a Component is on in a scene. The Components also bring their layer info with them and add it to the list of layers in the scene.

Other serious problems are happening when I edit a Component in the original library and the edit is not duplicated in the embedded Component, so the change doesn't show up in the renderings. When the client changes the packaging and I update it in the original Component and it doesn't show up in the rendering because the Embedded Component is the old version, I can't rely on this software. It was unreliable when I changed some Components and the instances in the renderings didn't reflect the changes that I copied and pasted the objects from the Component file. Might as well forget about using Components at all and have separate objects. I don't have time to wonder whether a Component I edited didn't end up in the scene. If I miss it, the client doesn't and I have to deal with that problem.

Every time I click on a window, it reminds me of Components that have changed. I check the box that says, "Don't warn me again", but it returns and warns me again.

The purpose of embedded Components is to make the file portable so the original library is not necessary for someone else to work on it in a different location.

I have no need for portability of my FormZ files. I don't want Embedded Components in my scenes. I just need Components from the original Component library. I do have a need for more compact file sizes and bulletproof synchrony with the original Component library. Large file sizes are more of an annoyance when Auto-Save is on and it takes 5-10 seconds to save the file than the way they are gobbling up storage.

Is there a way to turn off the Embedded feature so I can have more reliable instances and smaller file sizes again?


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#2 DennisA

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Posted 15 November 2017 - 06:23 PM

Jeff +1... I assume you are using user component libraries... I only use these & do all my editing out of the project in the User Component Folder. Yes links are lost to embedded components (they are suppose to be same link to user components... they are not). Need to even replace same named embedded component with external user component... most of the time you can not select the component in user folder until it is replaced in embedded... spoke to tech support for years about this... but am living with the component disconnect.



#3 Des

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Posted 16 November 2017 - 03:02 AM

Hi guys,

I have to agree that the old symbols system was very reliable. Although I have pretty much sorted out using components now, like you I still get warnings.

In the old symbols, one could use the three levels as well which was amazing for large files. For example create a symbol at it's full 3d resolution but if that started to slow down a file, you could create a low resolution version or evan a placeholder version. Great during modelling on large files, just switch to the high res version once you are ready to render, although this can still be achieved with components using the replace components tool.

Like you, I would like to have the option of not embedding the components into the main file.

 

Des



#4 FZnoob

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Posted 16 November 2017 - 12:11 PM

I pretty much avoid them all together.



#5 allan

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Posted 17 November 2017 - 08:30 PM

I have used the new components since they came out. At first they were very unreliable, but they've gotten better. I would say a good 15% of my projects have had major disasters, such as the backup file and the original files loses ALL the components! That's just unacceptable. Support told me this happens with old files, but guess what, it has happen with newer files as well. At one point I had to explode them all and save an additional file as a backup. Autodessys really needs to get their act together with them. I simply got tired of reporting it.


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#6 AHTOH

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Posted 22 November 2017 - 05:38 PM

Ones I tried components in quite large project and fund them a mess too. In the end of the day I started to use Thea render instances instead. But it is the only option for rendering needs and you can`t make any layout and drafting with it. Not speaking of beta unreliability.  So finally I even could not stick with FormZ and had to finish my project in Thea Studio.


Anton Voloshin,

architect, interior designer, product designer.


#7 Ged

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Posted 27 November 2017 - 10:39 AM

There are quite a few work arounds you have to use with FormZ. Component are a nightmare, I avoid them. 

I was doing lots of landscape and architectural work, now its just exhibition stands, my original type of work.

Too old and lazy now to bother with any new 3D learning so I will just muddle on with FormZ.

It has its limits, but it is cheaper than others. The support was brilliant up to March 2017. 

I find grouping is not working for me much anymore either.



#8 Justin Montoya

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Posted 27 November 2017 - 09:42 PM

I also have issues with components like everyone.  As a work around I recommend upgrading your computer!  HA!  No, but seriously, a faster computer can handle the extra thousands and millions of polygons better, and you can just keep the whole geometry there.  If you're still having issues, I also recommend using layers effectively to organize the files so you can hide and show only what is needed, very quickly.



#9 jeffgrune

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Posted 02 December 2017 - 10:02 AM

I had another embarrassing experience with Components when I updated a label and cap on a wine bottle component, expecting the edit to carry through on all placed instances in a cut case, as it did in the Symbol days. There was even a dialog that popped up telling me how many places that instance was also changed in the library. I sent the rendering to the client ad was told that the old label was still on the bottles. The bottle was edited and the proper label and cap art mapped on the file in the Component library folder before a scene was set up with those instances, but the Component objects became embedded and did not have the changes.

The faster shaded render preview and ability to render scenes exceeding 2GB are why I tried to switch to 8.5, but the Component mess makes it unreliable for instance-heavy product scenes. I'm reluctantly returning to 6.6.5 for this client. I can't afford to have these embarrassments and time-consuming errors. Sorry, ADS, you ruined a good thing when you revamped completely reliable Symbols into unreliable Embedded Components. Not only are they unreliable, but they vastly increase the file sizes, sometimes 10X.



#10 3dworks

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Posted 02 December 2017 - 01:13 PM

symbols / components have been / are actually one of the main reasons for me to use FZ instead of any other good modeler - hope ADS get's this area fixed and revamped with version 9...


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#11 Spacer

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Posted 12 December 2017 - 05:26 AM

plus 1.






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