Jump to content


Photo

Please sort out the component system


  • Please log in to reply
25 replies to this topic

#1 bbuxton

bbuxton

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 54 posts

Posted 11 November 2017 - 04:19 AM

Seriously it is the worst block/symbol/component system of any 3D application I have ever come across.

 

What is the point of a component if moving or rotating either edits the original definition or explodes the instance or creates a new definition?

 

Component transforms should not be considered edits to the original definition, If I want to edit the original definition I should open it or use edit component.

 

 


  • andrew, Justin Montoya, dubir and 2 others like this

#2 jeffgrune

jeffgrune

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 45 posts

Posted 15 November 2017 - 12:41 PM

I am running into this problem with Components. I've been using formZ for 20 years and the Symbol system was always reliable. Files with placed symbols were compact. The Symbol Library file could be opened, edited and the changes would be reflected in all instances of the symbol anywhere it was placed.

Now, with the Component system, every placed Component becomes embedded, increasing the file size. What was a 3 MB file in FormZ 6.5 has become a 202 MB file in FormZ 8.5. Changing a layer a Component is on brings a dialog about changing the original Component. It shouldn't matter to the original what layer a Component is on in a scene and the Components bring their layer info with them and add it to the list of layers in the scene.

Other serious problems are happening when I edit a Component in the original library and the edit is not duplicated in the embedded Component, so the change doesn't show up in the renderings.

The purpose of embedded Components is to make the file portable so the original library is not necessary for someone else to work on it in a different location.

I have no need for portability of my FormZ files. I don't want embedded Components in my scenes. I do have a need for more compact file sizes and bulletproof synchrony with the original. Component Library.


  • dubir and DaveVT like this

#3 andrew

andrew

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 90 posts
  • LocationMinneapolis

Posted 15 November 2017 - 01:11 PM

I'll suggest that the old method of having Library Files that then referenced proxies in the modeling file was a superior way of working with projects, especially over time, when a Library represented catagories of objects or a client's assets.  

 

I have a Library file now where I keep some assets, and when I bring them in I explode them and using a different layer. I just cant afford to have the new system screw up days of work.



#4 Spacer

Spacer

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 228 posts

Posted 13 December 2017 - 02:31 PM

PLUS ONE



#5 Spacer

Spacer

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 228 posts

Posted 14 December 2017 - 04:06 AM

For example i have gotten this window 6 times in the last 15 minutes - even though I click "ok":

 

Capture d'écran 2017-12-14 09.48.10.png

 

I thought that maybe I was doing something wrong in my manipulation of components,but after reading severalposts where others are having trouble with this, I want to weigh in.

 

Can Support give an idea on when this will be fixed?



#6 Justin Montoya

Justin Montoya

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 426 posts

Posted 03 January 2018 - 03:48 PM

I think the general consensus is do not use Components until they are fixed back to what Symbols used to be.  Otherwise, you are going to have issues.


  • FZnoob, Bartjuan and Spacer like this

#7 Andyb

Andyb

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 142 posts

Posted 05 January 2018 - 08:19 AM

Generally speaking, I'm of the opinion that the components system needs a complete overhall top to bottom. To be blunt, a lot of the models are ugly and very basic. Too basic to be of any real use. The whole thing needs to be modernised.


  • Spacer likes this

#8 dubir

dubir

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 47 posts

Posted 05 January 2018 - 09:04 AM

Plus one

 



#9 ASONE

ASONE

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 386 posts
  • LocationBoulder, Colorado, USA

Posted 12 January 2018 - 11:48 AM

+1

 

I have given up trying to use components.


FormZ PRO v8.5.  2017 iMac 4.0 GHz quad core i7 24MB RAM and a 2015 Macbook Pro quad core i7 16MB RAM, Modern Architecture in Boulder and Denver Colorado www.ASONEarchitecture.com 


#10 Bartjuan

Bartjuan

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 132 posts
  • LocationMonterey,CA

Posted 16 January 2018 - 12:59 PM

+1 

components = corrupted files



#11 rhodesy

rhodesy

    Member

  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 18 posts

Posted 16 January 2018 - 06:55 PM

Funny I used to be a FormZ user (v7 and 8) but the terrible component issues was one of the main reasons I had to look elsewhere and have been using sketchup for the last few years. FormZ is definitely more powerful but components/general 90's interface and slow snapping tools made me switch. I keep checking back in to see what has changed and if its worth switching back but I see the same issues are being reported. Maybe V9 might solve everything when it comes out.

 

Side winge but the quality of the FormZ interface really jars against the new vray plugin. One is modern the other was out of date even when it was brought out back with Bonzai v1!


  • 3dworks and Spacer like this

#12 vitodepalo

vitodepalo

    Newbie

  • Members
  • Pip
  • 1 posts

Posted 29 January 2018 - 11:26 AM

+1



#13 jwiede

jwiede

    Member

  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 16 posts

Posted 31 January 2018 - 12:18 AM

+1 here too, Symbols were stable and just worked.  Components just don't.  For as important as this functionality is, it not receiving higher priority than some of the other stuff of late is quite vexing.  We _need_ a working Symbols / Components system, and ASAP!


  • 3dworks likes this

#14 3dworks

3dworks

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 374 posts
  • LocationBerlin, Germany

Posted 31 January 2018 - 11:52 AM

i only can repeat what others posted here +1


3dworks visual computing + photography


#15 Hugo

Hugo

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 242 posts
  • LocationNetherlands

Posted 31 January 2018 - 07:07 PM

Yep, metoo. +1 to make components work, agree with others here.

VANDENBOOMEN-ARCHITECTen...

 

MACOS 10.13.3 HIGH SIERRA | Form Z 8.6.0.2 | Vectorworks 2018 SP | AutoCad 2018 LT | Maxwell Render 4.2.0.x | Thea Render | Renderzone | Affinity Photo and Designer

Mac Pro late 2013 8-core 3.0Ghz 32Gb RAM, 2x FirePro D500 3GB | MacBook Pro Retina 15" mid 2014 i7 2.8Ghz 16Gb RAM, Nvidia GeForce GT 750M 2Gb+Intel Iris

Mac Pro mid 2010 12-core 3,46Ghz 96Gb RAM, SSD | Mac Mini mid 2010 2,4Ghz 2-core 16Gb RAM, Nvidia GeForce 320M 256MB | Cinema Display 27" 2560x1440 | LG 31" 4K 4096x2160


#16 Des

Des

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 407 posts
  • LocationIreland

Posted 01 February 2018 - 06:18 AM

I agree that the components need to be sorted, I've weighed in on this for some time now..

 

But in the mean time until it is sorted, I follow some rules I've developed as I still use components a lot. I get no problems now.

 

1. I always create my components in a separate file and use "import component" into my project. The origin is important.

2. Right click the component in the component manager and select "always update".

3. In the separate component file I always name the layer the same as the component so it sits in it's own layer in the main model and I know what's what.

4. If you don't want the component to alway face the camera, make sure to choose 'fixed" in the tool options parameters.

I got caught out a couple of times where, say for example I use a bollard component which looks the same from any direction but I forgot to turn on fixed rotation. They turn to the camera and really slow down the model. I think it should be set to "Fixed Rotation" by default.

5. Make sure your file paths are not changed after inserting components, that goes for everything like materials and textures.

 

Most of this probably goes without saying, it's mostly for newer users of components, but if you follow these rules they should behave.

 

Another tip is:

Create a "placement component", say a low resolution circle and call it something you remember.

If you get the warning that any other component is different etc. Use the "Replace components" tool on the component to change to the circle component.

Delete the problem component, re-import the component from it's file and replace the circle component with that. Your warnings will now stop.

 

Ok, I think I broke the record for saying "component" the most times in one post  :huh:  :D

 

Hope this helps,

 

Des


  • andrew, Bartjuan and Spacer like this

#17 archigraphica

archigraphica

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 34 posts

Posted 01 February 2018 - 08:40 AM

Gave up on these along time ago. (but at least there's a new render engine that I'm never going to use)



#18 3dworks

3dworks

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 374 posts
  • LocationBerlin, Germany

Posted 05 February 2018 - 08:23 AM

one nice thing with the older symbols system was also that we could easily create low res proxys for massive scenes. missing in components.


  • andrew likes this

3dworks visual computing + photography


#19 snow

snow

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 98 posts

Posted 09 February 2018 - 09:05 AM

I decided to use components after a long hiatus of not using them.  I created a single bracket used a couple dozen times in the scene.  I wanted to start organizing parts of the scenes by layer BUT as soon as I selected a new layer that was housing a component I got the dreaded "component update" dialogue.  So I selected "create a new component" thinking would create one new one in the selected layer... but it created 15 of the same component with the same layer(!!).  

 

I didn't want to deal with 15+ separate components so I exploded all the components and all my brackets are inside out.

 

Reverse tool each bracket twice and now it's how i should have started out all along... 

 

Don't use components. 



#20 jwiede

jwiede

    Member

  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 16 posts

Posted 11 February 2018 - 06:04 AM

I decided to use components after a long hiatus of not using them.  I created a single bracket used a couple dozen times in the scene.  I wanted to start organizing parts of the scenes by layer BUT as soon as I selected a new layer that was housing a component I got the dreaded "component update" dialogue.  So I selected "create a new component" thinking would create one new one in the selected layer... but it created 15 of the same component with the same layer(!!).  

 

I didn't want to deal with 15+ separate components so I exploded all the components and all my brackets are inside out.

 

Reverse tool each bracket twice and now it's how i should have started out all along... 

 

Yeah, not only are Components unstable and generally a pain, but when you try to rid yourself of them, they take an extra big bite.  Unacceptable.

 

ADS devs, please either fix Components, or replace them with something that works!  This is too important and commonly-used functionality to leave in this state for so long.


Edited by jwiede, 11 February 2018 - 06:05 AM.

  • Spacer likes this




0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users