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Creating faceted objects ?

facet resolution

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#1 rodlord

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Posted 13 June 2017 - 10:28 AM

Hi

Once upon a time if I wanted to create a cylinder I would create a circle and then extrude it.

In the process of drawing that original circle profile I was offered the option of deciding how many segments to give it ... the resolution.

The profile then had points that could be clicked on and moved.

These points then translated into facets when the extrusion was performed.

This object also had points that could be found and manipulated.

CAN I STILL CREATE A FACETED OBJECT in 7.3.4 ?

Or am I forced to convert it after the event to an object with no apparent control over the resolution ?

I have been trying to do this with global scheme settings and stuff but it does not behave consistently object to object and does not appear to offer specific control of each specific object.

This kind of stuff used to be so quick and easy ... maybe it still is but I can't find out how and it is wasting ENORMOUS amounts of time.

Please somebody tell me I'm doing it all wrong and all I have to do is so-and-so !

Many thanks in anticipation.

Best wishes,

Rod


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#2 setz

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Posted 13 June 2017 - 11:06 AM

The work around is to use the Polygon Tool and set the number of sides you want there.  It's really the same as a polygonal circle, but you wouldn't think so at first glance.  Just Choose "By Number of Segments" and enter the resolution -number of sides- as you like.

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#3 rodlord

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Posted 13 June 2017 - 06:34 PM

FANTASTIC ! - so simple and I've been looking past it all this time trying to use the tools I always have.

I can honestly say that in the couple of decades and more that I have been using FormZ I have never used this tool before even though it sits right next to the circle tool.

Thank you VERY much.

Cheers

Rod



#4 rodlord

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Posted 13 June 2017 - 07:38 PM

Well I've been playing arund trying to make this work for me ... but as always there are multiple catches 22 !

Create a cylinder with exactly the number of segments around the circle as I want - great ... just like it used to be !

Then rounded the ends... great- no problems.

Selected all the points at one end to drag them to a new cylinder length ... but ... er ... the points WONT MOVE !

I then query the object to find that what had been an excellent faceted object was now somehow magically a SMOOTH object again ... or at least partially it seems.

I can see the points, I can select them ... I just cant do anything with them.

So I merrily convert the object back to faceted ... only to find that HUNDREDS of points are created in the rounded zones ... about 30 or so for every rounded curve corresponding with the cylinder segments.

But I really don't want that many ... I can quite happily do with 4 or 5 at the most so that when this model is instanced several times in the final  large area assembly I don't have thousands and thousands of lurking useless polygons slowing down the EIAS Animator renders.

But I can find no way to reduce the number created by the rounding process.

I have tried setting the scheme to low resolution - I have tried using simple and sliding the percentage slider down ...and down ... to 2% !

None of it makes any difference !

So now I am going to have to do this simple task with a volume of revolution instead so that I can create a curve at each end with just a few points in it.

Once upon a time things used to be much simpler, more logical, and a really useful tool to aid productivity.

Now I feel like I have to fight and struggle all the time to try and achieve the same simple tasks that were once so easy.

I can only think it must just be me getting too ancient.

Cheers

Rod



#5 pipo

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Posted 13 June 2017 - 09:56 PM

been through all these issues myself when upgrading....

Rounding needs non parametric options

 

Fun starts when you need to sweep (curb profile for example) around a complex shape comprising many arcs , straight segments and compound curves......

This is where the parametric systems loses out on facetted.... sure it can be done  , but each arc must separately be reassigned a specific number of points AFTER separating from

the segments it is already joined to.

 

Sweeps are actually still not working correctly in the latest versions....

 

I work with the above situation often and the resulting swept curb is almost always on the wrong sideof the path  or upside down or both (using the 'as positioned'  option)

centroid position usually works but this method is not useful.

first point option is usually not working correctly

 

 

Flipping directions or reversing only solves this sometimes

 

PARAMETRIC SWEEPING SHOULD ALLOW THE INTERACTIVE MOVING OF THE SOURCE ON THE PATH



#6 3dworks

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Posted 14 June 2017 - 03:22 AM

agree on this. 99% of the time, sweeping is a real pain. this used to work very well in older versions. i wonder until when we will have to wait to get it's fuctionality back to useful?


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#7 setz

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Posted 14 June 2017 - 10:46 AM

Currently, Sweeping is most functional when "As Positioned" is used.

 

The interactive widget defaults to centroid which is not very useful most of the time.  Is there a way to snap move it to a different position on the profile?  I tried key modifiers to drag and reposition, which could work well for editing, but found nothing that would work.  Adding a  "flip vertical" and "flip horizontal" option would also be of great help.  As Pipo states, reversing path sometimes works but not always.

 

+1 for non parametric option for rounding

 

@rod - Are you using the Polygon Mesh Tool for converting to facetted?  There are a few ways of converting an object to facetted, but this tool is IMHO the most useful.  See the settings below as to how they affect the top of an extruded cylinder.  I did first convert from an Extruded Objet to a Plain Object although I don't know if that matters.

 

 

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Edited by setz, 14 June 2017 - 10:46 AM.


#8 Tech

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Posted 14 June 2017 - 12:53 PM

Hi Rod, 

 

Dy definition, a cylinder is smooth object and is constructed using mathematics.  If you want a "facetted cylinder" then using the polygon tool and setting the number of sides is the best way to achieve this.  

 

Once a facetted model is created, there is not a way to turn these into smooth object.  This was a problem in previous versions which is why smooth modeling is the automatic modeling type when using tools that use mathematical algorithms for their shapes (like circles, arcs, spheres, and cylinders). In formZ, a circle is created and defined as pi*r^2, not "X number of segments in a circular shape."

 

Your facetted object turned into a smooth object because the Round tool with what I assume was with the "Circular" cross section, and the circular cross section uses a mathematical definition.

 

With that being said, as Setz notes, there are a number of ways to make your smooth objects into facetted objects.  The Polygon Mesh tool is a great way to control how much facetting takes place in your smooth geometry.



#9 rodlord

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Posted 14 June 2017 - 01:11 PM

Hi - thanks all for your replies and thanks "Staff" ! for your offering.

Thanks for the maths lesson ... I needed that !

I will certainly investigate the Polygon Mesh tool - thank you - am not familiar with that.

What I would like to be able to do is work in the fluid way I got used to - starting with Medusa on a Prime computer in 1981 and working through various modelling and rendering systems including Renderman ... etc, etc.

The crucial thing I had to be aware of with animation was not to build models that were so polygon heavy that rendering each frame took forever.

Although you may think that this is no longer an issue these days I'm afraid an old fart is still here to tell you that it really does matter.

Being able to precisely control the level of detail needed for a particular large environment is still absolutely crucial when intending to render thousands of HD frames.

Unless of course you happen to be Disney or Dreamworks !

Anyway - I'm not actually complaining about anything - just trying to use what is still a great tool in a way that suits my method of working and project requirements.

Ideally a preferences project setting that allowed a choice of working in a "smooth" or "faceted" world would seem ideal to me.

But that seems to have been discarded.

Anyway - thanks for all offerings - there's always a solution ... just often takes a lot of head-banging and trial and error to discover it.

Cheers

Rod



#10 rodlord

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Posted 15 June 2017 - 12:19 PM

By the way - thanks for your suggestions Setz.

I'm afraid the tool options you have shown must be from a later version than 7.3.4.

I don't recognise them .

I've attached what I get offered which unfortunately is not exactly intuitive !

Cheers

Rod

 

 

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