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#61 AC1000

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Posted 19 May 2017 - 03:05 AM

This is great news!

 

Thinking about how this is done in other clean UI's, it is obvious to me now that we need TABS.  Tabs in the palettes would make everything fit in a much more cohesive and streamlined manner.  And could be easy to implement without a complete overhaul.

 

But getting back to basics, we need to remove the superfluous wastes of space.  For example, there is absolutely no need for the Workspaces Palette, and it takes up a ton of space, and is a mostly useless feature, in an overly prominent location in the default UI.   I would much rather see an Ultimate Workspace offered that has all of the tools and palettes exposed in nicely organized and thought through layout, instead of hidden away, confusing newer users.  As is, the jokingly huge default tool icon size makes FormZ look like a children's toy, instead of a professional tool.  I suspect the UI developer is not using a similar dpi monitor as the rest of us, for their development, and therefore cannot see the same oversizing of the tool icons and menus.  I know much of this is user adjustable, but it shouldn't need to be adjusted as much to get the same clean and fluid look and feel that pre v7 FormZ offered.  The newer interface certainly has some improvements, but they are incredibly overshadowed by large wastes of valuable screen space.  Palettes now take up considerable more screen space which means less room for a nice large modeling window.

 

I think the only reason users like myself keep bringing this up is because we want FormZ to succeed.   We want it to have a much higher adoption rate.  We want students to fall in love with FormZ in school, and carry that into their professional careers.  In order for this to happen, we need to have a serious change in the way FormZ is presented when opened for the first time.  It needs to be streamlined, and cohesively connected.  Gone are the wastes of UI space.  Increase the size of the modeling window.  Reduce the default tool sizes.  Bring back the classic white workspace, or develop a better light grey version for default.  The beige has to go!  I'll never forget my old boss, who was a longtime FormZ user from the days of OS 8 and OS 9, said "Why would FormZ make the background color 'shit' brown, instead of the clean white it has always been?  It's incredibly unprofessional, especially when saving and sharing plan views on a grid of our models."   I think that speaks for itself.   :/

 

Oversized icons are disturbing and one icon is especially hilarious: the component man! There should be more abstract picture in that icon. Usually my components are building blocks. And the bright "Pan" hand is also interesting. Perhaps that hand belongs to the component man!

 

Generate Tool palette has sphere icon activated at start. It should be cube definitely. Little, almost comic details but they do matter.


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#62 Bo Atkinson

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Posted 19 May 2017 - 05:33 AM

Could not work-colors incorporate dynamic colors, that is, very slightly brightening-dimming- intensity for selected objects...changing at a subtler rate than Photoshop-selections,  (perhaps with gradual peaks and valleys of one change per second). Hence we could extend the range of one limited octave of coloring to more states of clarity.  



#63 ASONE

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Posted 22 May 2017 - 01:27 PM

True, the first thing I do setting up FormZ is change to a white background and shrink the icons.


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#64 kac

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Posted 22 May 2017 - 02:42 PM

I would like to see a better snapping and align system much like MOI has. So easy in MOI to align groups or single objects to other object or within the scene. Snapping in MOI is very aggressive so you know if you are on target where as FZ seems to not snap consistently or easily especially when you start having complex shapes and scenes.

 

In MOI you can have a single selected object and align it to non selected shapes.

 

FZ also lacks overall dimension of a selected object or group forcing you to use the measure tools. This can be really cumbersome when fitting shapes.

 

Lastly.... can we have math input for the input fields? Much easier to toss in a diameter/2 and hit enter when modeling something and want to reverse engineer a direct measure to radius or be able to extrude with a draft such as length*tan#°.


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#65 Justin Montoya

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Posted 23 May 2017 - 12:04 PM

Agreed!

 

Basic Math input in the input fields would be an excellent addition!



#66 setz

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Posted 23 May 2017 - 03:05 PM

Math input +1



#67 Chris lund

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Posted 23 May 2017 - 09:26 PM

+1 Math input.   Lowest form of it would still be helpful, if the Python Terminal is available where we could type in what we wish to figure out.   But true, in field would be best!


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#68 CJT52

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Posted 04 June 2017 - 11:40 AM

This is great news!

 

Thinking about how this is done in other clean UI's, it is obvious to me now that we need TABS.  < CUT-DOWN>

 

I concur with that, I was discussing this very topic the other day on another forum I'm on with respect to an Architectural CAD software I use (SPIRIT) & thought TABS seemed a cleaner way to deal with tool icons that sometimes looked unorganised on the top UI, as a future UI upgrade. This would also cater for future software tools & a user custom tab. I used RHINO as a TAB example (sorry FZ-users). I also discussed Ribbons like AUTOCAD uses, but this type of UI didn't get a thumbs up, So was wondering what the consensus is with FZ-users.

 

NO CHANGE =

RIBBONS =

TABS = 2

 

Over & out,

CJT52 

Attached Thumbnails

  • Rhino UI-01.png
  • AutoCAD 2016 ribbon UI.png
  • SPIRIT 2016 CT-UI-01 (2).jpg


#69 setz

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Posted 04 June 2017 - 01:44 PM

Note that in the spirit and rhino UIs that the actual working space in your examples appears to be about 50% of screen area. My current working space in FZ is around 85%. Any modifications should focus on maximizing working area and include flexibility to minimize the interface.
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#70 AlexanderGogl

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Posted 04 June 2017 - 02:14 PM

I concur with that, I was discussing this very topic the other day on another forum I'm on with respect to an Architectural CAD software I use (SPIRIT) & thought TABS seemed a cleaner way to deal with tool icons that sometimes looked unorganised on the top UI, as a future UI upgrade. This would also cater for future software tools & a user custom tab. I used RHINO as a TAB example (sorry FZ-users). I also discussed Ribbons like AUTOCAD uses, but this type of UI didn't get a thumbs up, So was wondering what the consensus is with FZ-users.

 

NO CHANGE =

RIBBONS =

TABS = 2

 

Over & out,

CJT52 

 

I would like to prefer tabs over ribbons, but only if they are done well and don't clutter the UI. For me, Blender is a good example of a contemporary UI that is adaptable, uniform, and leaves the most space to the modelling window. The tabs are small, appealing icons whereby you can fit a lot of tabs on a very narrow frame and quickly navigate to the right tab (compare it with Rhino's tabs).

 

Bildschirmfoto 2017-06-04 um 20.34.28.png

 

More advanced tools can be accessed in three ways: (1) the menu on the bottom (exploring), (2) hitting the space bar to display a hierarchical menu where you can search for a tool or use a sequence of characters as a shortcut (asn => Add Surface Nurbs). This is quite handy for more experienced users.

 

Bildschirmfoto 2017-06-04 um 20.53.51.png

 

You can also access tools and object and scene settings by opening the sidebars (press n or p). I think that the key here is that Blender's UI responds to its context: When I am editing an object the toolbars change. When I am painting it or sculpting it the toolbars will change again.

 

Bildschirmfoto 2017-06-04 um 20.34.55.png

 

Bildschirmfoto 2017-06-04 um 20.34.59.png

 

Bildschirmfoto 2017-06-04 um 20.57.29.png

 

Another thing I also like very much is that one can split the window in as many frames as I like by dragging the little hatch in the upper right corner. Joining them is as simple as splitting them. No need for opening up a dialogue.

 

Bildschirmfoto 2017-06-04 um 20.35.12.png

 

 

If I want to give the model more space I can maximise a frame temporarily by hitting shift and the space bar:

 

Bildschirmfoto 2017-06-04 um 21.07.40.png

 

I highly recommend the UI team to have a look at Blender's approach. The software is open source and large parts of it are based on python.



#71 mleblanc

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Posted 05 June 2017 - 12:39 PM

I like the blender look - but it is really text intensive. I understand the icon based approach have issues , but it can be fixed. For me Photoshop remains the best example of a modern and clean UI with the right balance between icons and text.


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#72 CJT52

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Posted 05 June 2017 - 12:48 PM

Note that in the spirit and rhino UIs that the actual working space in your examples appears to be about 50% of screen area. My current working space in FZ is around 85%. Any modifications should focus on maximizing working area and include flexibility to minimize the interface.

 

That's true, but the side vertical menus in SPIRIT have a handy pop-out slider when one ghosts your mouse pointer far right or left, they can also stay fixed, as in the example, as they also have a pin or un-pin to screen icon.

 

Over & out,

CJT52



#73 AlexanderGogl

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Posted 06 June 2017 - 11:41 AM

I like the blender look - but it is really text intensive. I understand the icon based approach have issues , but it can be fixed. For me Photoshop remains the best example of a modern and clean UI with the right balance between icons and text.

 

I agree with PS as being a great example for o contemporary UI. I wasn't aware of Blender's text intensive UI because the text elements of the interface are hidden most of the time  ^_^



#74 AlexanderGogl

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Posted 16 June 2017 - 01:42 PM

How do you think about a formula field for the Measure Quantities tool? When doing conceptual mass models I like to compare their floor area on-the-go by using a very simple formula: A = V / storey height. It would make conceptualising much more fluently if I could just enter a formula in the Measure Quantities tool that uses the information it derives from the clicked object (see figure below).

 

FormZ.png


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#75 Hugo

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Posted 21 June 2017 - 05:25 AM

Ok, my contribution to this discussion.

 

I do not care that much about the UI FormZ uses at this moment, but I do care about consistency of it. The palettes should always stay in place, like in many other programs I use. For instance Maxwell, Photoshop and Affinity Photo + Affinity Designer (https://affinity.serif.com/en-gb/) are good examples. I love Affinity to work with.

 

Another thing I really like to see is that many issues about version 8 are solved in the next version, to many to mention here. All those little errors gives me the feeling as if it is programmed just to quickly, not accurate. Instead of adding major new features in the next version (nice anyway, but...) make that new version rock solid. For me Affinity is the example of a small software company who develop software from scratch and it just works, no little annoying issues at all, and with a nice clean interface.

 

then...

 

Could we get best in class printing output options? Let's say, print frame setup in the 3D model and save as a scene. Text always printed on 300 dpi, easy to create layered PDF, etc. 

 

I am looking forward to the all new version, just because I still hope it will be better...

 

Succes with development.

 

 


VANDENBOOMEN-ARCHITECTen...

 

MACOS 10.12 SIERRA | Form Z 8.5.7 | Vectorworks 2017 SP | AutoCad 2017 LT | Maxwell Render 4.1.x.x | Thea Render | Renderzone | Affinity Photo and Designer

Mac Pro late 2013 8-core 3.0Ghz 32Gb RAM, 2x FirePro D500 3GB | MacBook Pro Retina 15" mid 2014 i7 2.8Ghz 16Gb RAM, Nvidia GeForce GT 750M 2Gb+Intel Iris

Mac Pro mid 2010 12-core 3,46Ghz 96Gb RAM, SSD | Mac Mini mid 2010 2,4Ghz 2-core 16Gb RAM, Nvidia GeForce 320M 256MB | Cinema Display 27" 2560x1440 | LG 31" 4K 4096x2160


#76 David Lemelin

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Posted 12 July 2017 - 09:35 AM

Has there been any chatter about a major revision for the near future? FormZ 8 followed FormZ 7 remarkably fast. Given that this forum seems to suggest many improvements and fixes, I'm a little surprised there hasn't been some war drums from Autodessys to excite the user base...

 

 



#77 Alan Cooper

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Posted 12 July 2017 - 12:20 PM

Has there been any chatter about a major revision for the near future? FormZ 8 followed FormZ 7 remarkably fast. Given that this forum seems to suggest many improvements and fixes, I'm a little surprised there hasn't been some war drums from Autodessys to excite the user base...

I reckon it's because V9 is going to be so brilliant we will think it is V10 and well worth the wait :) But in all seriousness, I don't want a rush job. I only want to use solid software which won't have a multitude of bugs or be susceptible to crashing. Reliability is more important than new bells and whistles for a work tool because that is generally what saves the most time.


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#78 Hugo

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Posted 12 July 2017 - 04:23 PM

Alan,

 

I hope they will develop v9 better then they did v8, we'll see...

I agree with you it should be free of crashes and major bugs. Anyway, I lost faith and that is after all those years, more then 23 of using FMZ, a shame. I lost energy to report the bugs in v8.5, which is a pity.

 

When was the last major update to fix bugs??? ...I forgot, to long ago.

 

ADS, please give priority to fix all bugs reported over the last 2 or more years. 

Thank you in advance and looking forward to see a beta version 9.


VANDENBOOMEN-ARCHITECTen...

 

MACOS 10.12 SIERRA | Form Z 8.5.7 | Vectorworks 2017 SP | AutoCad 2017 LT | Maxwell Render 4.1.x.x | Thea Render | Renderzone | Affinity Photo and Designer

Mac Pro late 2013 8-core 3.0Ghz 32Gb RAM, 2x FirePro D500 3GB | MacBook Pro Retina 15" mid 2014 i7 2.8Ghz 16Gb RAM, Nvidia GeForce GT 750M 2Gb+Intel Iris

Mac Pro mid 2010 12-core 3,46Ghz 96Gb RAM, SSD | Mac Mini mid 2010 2,4Ghz 2-core 16Gb RAM, Nvidia GeForce 320M 256MB | Cinema Display 27" 2560x1440 | LG 31" 4K 4096x2160


#79 Alan Cooper

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Posted 12 July 2017 - 05:43 PM

Hugo, FZ pro 8.5.7 is mainly free from crashes and bugs. Is that what you are using? I still 'save as' regularly as a necessary habit, but loss of work is infrequent now as long as modelling is done sensibly. I agree that has not always been the case but I am glad I persevered through some of the difficult times mainly in V7 and 8 as FZ 8.5.7 is most certainly a powerful and capable design tool.


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Family Plan.


#80 setz

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Posted 13 July 2017 - 12:58 AM

Post or email bugs and requests. ADS does listen to their user base and is truely interested in making their software as great as it can be.

Version 8 has come a long way from V7 and is very stable. ADS continues to constantly update the functionality and is consistently adding value to the software. I wish I had more time to submit requests/suggestions and I do whenever I have a moment.




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