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VR Thoughts and Suggestions


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#1 Bo Atkinson

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Posted 22 March 2016 - 06:30 AM

I regret to see that the world's VR category seems related to toys, where my hopes are for interactive architectural and product design uses, (experiments). To begin providing collaboration between designers and builders, (ultimate goal). Or to integrate the design-build fields. Perhaps, thereafter, to spur more connections between CAD, FEA and scientific interaction for design purposes and thereafter perhaps scientific/mathematical experimental goals, (all through virtual tools).
 
I regret that the formZ background cannot be made transparent as a simple, experimental option, for very small scale users and experimenters to advance this research. Is that so hard? Underlays are static and difficult to set up, whereas, instantaneous, live action video could provide direct connection between design and physical  modeling (and theoretically actual building)…  The user could have video input to active windows beneath formZ window….   Yes, this is still a bit un-precise, but it could demonstrate the potential value of making such a process accurate.  MultiView could likewise provide 3 or 4 axial views, in concert with 3 or 4 video cameras! 
 


#2 Tech

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Posted 22 March 2016 - 07:03 AM

Hi Bo,

 

We have moved your posting here since it did not seem to relate to the other thread where you posted originally.

 

So you basically want to use a video feed as an underlay / background image, right?

 

And was there any other specific suggestion there?


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#3 Bartjuan

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Posted 22 March 2016 - 11:10 AM

VR thoughts add-on

Sorry to jump on your post Bo but on the same general topic.

 

I often want to bring my z Model to a meeting to show design progress but I don't have a laptop to lug around much less a second license of FormZ

I'd love a player only version of Formz that I could load on a tablet ( Android or iOS). The HTML5 integration is a novelty at this point and is useless in a professional environment without higher resolution, and the ability to do a live walk-through.

There is the option to export to a Unity game environment and export to google cardboard ( I believe this is the  "toy" phenomenon Bo refers to) this process is cumbersome and filled with technical obstacles.

Also, the Augment software integration was interesting but kinda annoying that you integrate a feature into FormZ that requires a separate subscription to use.

 

I am not 100% sure where Bo is going with live video as a background but I trust his instincts. Real world integration of design and other Virtual capture and display  methods are becoming more important.

 

BTW. I recently used Autodesk Momento and FormZ in combination to design a museum mount for an artifact with nice success. Again, bridging the virtual and the real in one design process.

 

Bart



#4 bluemonkey

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Posted 23 March 2016 - 05:22 AM

If there was even better integration with something like unity would be great. It's much better at presenting stuff than any modelling software could and you can publish your content to many different formats (including Oculus Rift etc.)

 

The FBX export was a huge step in the right direction and if this could be improved it would only make things better. More and better integration and export with other software has to be the best solution.

 

FormZ is a great modeller, and the rendering situation should improve soon when Thea and Vray are available to us all - I would prefer it stays that way rather than trying to be everything to everyone.

 

I agree the augment subscription is a bind, I signed up to the 30 day trial but haven't had chance to try it out yet, so I'm guessing my subscription will expire soon.


Edited by bluemonkey, 23 March 2016 - 05:26 AM.


#5 Justin Montoya

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Posted 23 March 2016 - 05:12 PM

I was recently able to demo some of the VR options, Oculus Rift with a gamepad for controlling your own path, and Samsung Gear VR with a nice prerecorded video tour that you were free to look around 180* or so.  

 

The Oculus Rift demo was a big disappointment.  Even as an enthusiast, who is willing to go deeper into technology than most, I was disheartened by the amount of dizziness caused by this experience.  I'm sure future generations will get better but I highly doubt giving our clients gamepads to tour their project 'solo' in VR is ever going to work. 

 

The Samsung Gear VR, with a prerecorded tour of an energy plant and a deep water drill, was incredible.  I think for practical purposes, this is about all we can expect our clients to enjoy.  They can look around from a fixed camera point that is moved along a path of the tour, but they are not allowed to move themselves.  This takes away 90% of any dizziness effect, even with pretty dramatic movement (our demo was going from a helicopter flying above the ocean, then diving through the surface, all the way to the ocean floor).  So with that in mind, I think we need to plan on creating prerecorded virtual tours for VR to have any short term feasibility.  

 

I'm excited about VR, but it's still so early in development that it's use in a professional environment needs to be more thought out before it can truly be effective.



#6 etroxel

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Posted 23 March 2016 - 05:43 PM

I'd like the ability to render stereo VR's with whatever renderer I want and play them back via an app or web page using google cardboard or samsung gear vr. Right now there isn't a great way to easily do this, but Kubity is getting close. They are rendering models on our phones in real time and presenting them in stereo. 

 

 



#7 bluemonkey

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Posted 24 March 2016 - 04:50 AM

I've done a bit of experimenting with Unity and Oculus and the results have been good. The hardest part is getting the model into Unity with textures intact and as you want them, and lighting is very hard to get your head round.

 

In Unity you can produce a VR experience (oculus and others) or a 3D navigational space (iPad, smartphone etc). The depth of Unity can be intimidating and the programming can put a lot of people off but people used to complain that FormZ had a steep learning curve - and we all got there in the end.

 

Once your model is in it's very easy to set up a first person cameras etc. If you want to produce something more than just a prerecorded route you need to think about colliders/interactivity/buttons and this is where you need to use something like Unity, not modelling software - this is why autodesk are doing this with exporters via stingray not as part of their modelling software.

 

Some people feel more dizzy than others, a lot of this is down to controlling the speed of the experience (not too fast, not too slow - don't just use the default settings) and optimising the model/lighting/rendering etc. to reduce lag and keeping the experience as responsive as possible.

 

It would be great if there was a cut down version of Unity/others or some simple templates and tutorials just for Architectural/Product visualising with lots of presets/wizards etc (as most of the stuff in Unity/Stingray etc is much more than required).

 

Getting stated and finding tutorials is difficult, lighting and texturing is confusing but the rewards are great!

 

 

 


#8 Bo Atkinson

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Posted 24 March 2016 - 05:35 AM

 

 

So you basically want to use a video feed as an underlay / background image, right?

 

And was there any other specific suggestion there?

 

 

Yes Tech, regarding your question, that is right.

 

(No other suggestions were made, regarding formZ tool suggestions.) 



#9 bluemonkey

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Posted 24 March 2016 - 06:16 AM

The more I read Bo's original post the more I'm intrigued by the original suggestion and application - not sure how I would use it - but would love to learn more about what he would use it for.

 

Can you show us a typical example? or explain in a bit more depth.



#10 bluemonkey

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Posted 24 March 2016 - 06:30 AM

The more I read Bo's original post the more I'm intrigued by the original suggestion and application - not sure how I would use it - but would love to learn more about what he would use it for.

 

Can you show us a typical example? or explain in a bit more depth.



#11 Bo Atkinson

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Posted 24 March 2016 - 06:40 AM

VR uses might aim towards labor savings and enhanced living.  Labor is my initial focus because living demands labor foremost.

 

The first step to seriously save labor is to replace measuring devices with computer connected sensors and transducers.

 

Cameras are the best, highly developed 'sensors' at present and often provide video as well, (all at moderate cost, for the masses).

 

3d software allows truly creative interaction for design and build purposes…

 

Eventually, integrating both designing and building will save much labor. Why wait, if it can almost be had today?

 

I doubt i am very lazy, but perhaps just a little, (by saving labor). Multiplying output with less input, is more of my point.

 

I want to "throw out" the measuring tape, for a start, in VR enhanced labor experiments, while building structure.

 

...Upgrade this measuring task with cameras and use of formZ!

 

I first published my blog on this in 2003, calling it Cadmera. 

 

http://harmoniouspal...om/CADMERA.html



#12 etroxel

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Posted 24 March 2016 - 03:50 PM

Another great new headset is the HTC Vive and some cool software from IrisVR. Here's the kind of design tool I'd like to be able to use on the fly: 


Edited by etroxel, 24 March 2016 - 03:58 PM.





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