Tutorial for seat cusions - buttons, seams, etc?

[-andrew-]

Nice work Anton!

 

I had a feeling! 

 

Hey... it's only geometry

[jonmoore]

Great modeling there Anton.

 

But to be clear, the aspect of the modeling that I was saying is not possible in FormZ is the detailed folds and creases in the leather. To attempt this via SubD techniques would be wasteful and attempting to paint a displacement map rather than creating a displacement map from a sculpt would result in less believable, inferior results. FormZ is fantastic for providing the base geometry but a dedicated sculpting toolset would provide more organic results as can be seen in the screen grabs below.

 

Image 1 is the low poly cage (shown in subdivided form)

Image 2 is the result of a multi-resolution sculpt and as you can see the underlying geometry is still a low poly cage (what you see in the viewport is the result of the vector displacement).

Image 3 shows the finished bucket seat model in context with the car model - this is the core benefit of having sculpting tools within the modeling package for this type of project.

 

 

 

 

bla

[AHTOH]

Hi Anton,

 

Looks great, nice work!

 

The Dropbox links you posted above will expire at some point.  Is it OK if we repost your FMZ and PDF files here in case it helps others?

Thank`s Tech.

Sure thing. Do whatever you want if it helps promote FormZ and community. Files where exceeding forum limitations so I put them on Dropbox. 

Anton.

[AHTOH]

Great modeling there Anton.

 

But to be clear, the aspect of the modeling that I was saying is not possible in FormZ is the detailed folds and creases in the leather. To attempt this via SubD techniques would be wasteful and attempting to paint a displacement map rather than creating a displacement map from a sculpt would result in less believable, inferior results. FormZ is fantastic for providing the base geometry but a dedicated sculpting toolset would provide more organic results as can be seen in the screen grabs below.

 

Thank`s Jon.

Yes you are right. And you are not. I definitely can model seat example you`v shown with same level of detail. However It is much easier to make in ZBrush. I believe it is going to take twice less effort and time.

Anton. 

[Andrew West]

I wish I could say that I am a purist and that Form.z is the right tool for every job... but I can't.  Just like fixing my car I often have to think about what tool would work best for each problem.  As such I decided to buy both 3DS Max and Z Brush years ago.  They are tools in my arsenal that I turn to on occasion for effects that I find too cumbersome in Form.z alone.  For creases and wrinkles in furniture and fabric Max is wonderful and extremely forgiving.   Moving back and forth between the two programs is very easy.  I constantly have to remind myself that I am a digital artist and that the only thing that matters to my clients is the end result.  They don't care how I get there.  Sometimes it is just Photoshop to the rescue.

[Tech]

Hi Anton,

 

Ok, here are the files in case anyone needs them in the future:

 

Chesterfield cusion tutorial.pdf

 

chesterfield sub-d.zip

 

Thanks for sharing! 

 

Hi Andrew,

 

Yes, formZ offers an extremely large and very versatile tool set that will generally allow users to do more than they could with any other program.  However, it is also true that for highly detailed or specific needs, other programs can be useful in conjunction with formZ.  Glad that you are finding moving between the programs is very easy -- and hopefully with the FBX translator now available, it will be even easier...

[jonmoore]

and hopefully with the FBX translator now available, it will be even easier...

 

I must admit Tech, I've been finding the FBX import plugin to be problematic with anything other than simple scene geometry. It takes far too long to open scenes with medium - large polygon counts. The example below is close to 8 million GL poly's (triangles) and opens in Modo or C4D (from a 3ds Max export) in a shade under two minutes. I left FormZ chewing on the import for 10 minutes and gave up. In the end I exported from Modo as a .3dm and that imported into FormZ in approximately the same time as the Modo and C4D took for the FBX. I haven't tested FBX exports as yet as you mentioned that the exported FBX has no smoothing data automatically applied.

 

[-andrew-]

Jon, did you try checking the "Fast Import" box?*
 

I must admit Tech, I've been finding the FBX import plugin to be problematic with anything other than simple scene geometry. It takes far too long to open scenes with medium - large polygon counts. The example below is close to 8 million GL poly's (triangles) and opens in Modo or C4D (from a 3ds Max export) in a shade under two minutes. I left FormZ chewing on the import for 10 minutes and gave up. In the end I exported from Modo as a .3dm and that imported into FormZ in approximately the same time as the Modo and C4D took for the FBX. I haven't tested FBX exports as yet as you mentioned that the exported FBX has no smoothing data automatically applied.

 

*Just kidding... sorry, couldn't help it.  

Looking forward to seeing how this evolves.

[jonmoore]

Jon, did you try checking the "Fast Import" box?*

 

*Just kidding... sorry, couldn't help it.  

 

Looking forward to seeing how this evolves.

 

You had me going for a second there Andrew - I actually booted FormZ into action to look for the mythical 'fast import' option.

[Andrew West]

Hi Anton,

 

Ok, here are the files in case anyone needs them in the future:

 

Chesterfield cusion tutorial.pdf

 

chesterfield sub-d.zip

 

Thanks for sharing! 

 

Hi Andrew,

 

Yes, formZ offers an extremely large and very versatile tool set that will generally allow users to do more than they could with any other program.  However, it is also true that for highly detailed or specific needs, other programs can be useful in conjunction with formZ.  Glad that you are finding moving between the programs is very easy -- and hopefully with the FBX translator now available, it will be even easier...

 

Tech

This is probably not the place for it but I thought I might add information on just what tools I find more useful for organic modeling in other programs.  This is obviously in the hope that some day they may be incorporated into Form.z

1. The ability to manipulate segments on an object by extruding and chamfering lines and then welding points together.  This is my go to method for wrinkles, seams and trim on chairs. 

2.  Cloth and fabric generator.  Useful for dropping a soft object onto a collision object and having them interact.

3.  FFD tool in Max.  Don't know what it stands for but if you can use it to directly fluff a pillow or seat cushion in subtle ways. 

4.  Turbo Smooth.  Name says it all.

5.  Pro Optimizer.  Eliminates excessive geometry in a very useful and unique way.  Maintains geometry in a way that Reduce Mesh sometimes corrupts.

And there are many more but these are the ones I go to the most.

 

 

[-andrew-]

 

2.  Cloth and fabric generator.  Useful for dropping a soft object onto a collision object and having them interact.

 

Actually - was hoping to eventually hear that Bullet physics or something will be included. I don't particularly need animation, but being able to simulate draped fabric / soft and rigid bodies would help create some really nice models.

[jonmoore]

Actually - was hoping to eventually hear that Bullet physics or something will be included. I don't particularly need animation, but being able to simulate draped fabric / soft and rigid bodies would help create some really nice models.

 

Soft/Rigid body dynamics are part of the Modo Indie toolset too (using the Bullet physics engine under the hood).

 

Good recent tutorial video here (specifically regarding draping cloth):

 

 

You missed out on the 40% discount but you can still subscribe for as little as £7.49 a month (6 month subscription).

[-andrew-]

I considered that discount, but most of my 3D stuff is for hobby work at the moment, so I have a hard time justifying the purchase at the moment.... might consider it when it comes up again, though.

 

Blender does some fantastic cloth simulation. I've only done a tutorial so far - but there's no doubt it creates some strong results as well.

 

thanks-

Andrew

[jonmoore]

I considered that discount, but most of my 3D stuff is for hobby work at the moment, so I have a hard time justifying the purchase at the moment.... might consider it when it comes up again, though.

 

Blender does some fantastic cloth simulation. I've only done a tutorial so far - but there's no doubt it creates some strong results as well.

 

thanks-

Andrew

 

Blender is amazing for hobbyists. It provides much the same toolset as the big boys and bests them in certain areas such as GPU rendering. What you get with a Foundary or Autodesk product is a more refined workflow but considering 3ds Max is £200+ a month and Blender is free - that's a huge premium for workflow if you're not using 3d tools as a profession.

[Tech]

Jon,

 

If you have any issues with FBX, have you submitted any reports?  If not, please do this so we can see what you describe. Send the file in an email to support@formz.com and include any relevant details (if beyond what you mentioned above).

 

Thanks also for everyone's suggestions.  Of course we have set up a separate Suggestions section, so feel free to post there if you want these "logged in the appropriate manner."

[jonmoore]

Jon,

 

If you have any issues with FBX, have you submitted any reports?  If not, please do this so we can see what you describe. Send the file in an email to support@formz.com and include any relevant details (if beyond what you mentioned above).

 

I unfortunately can't send the FBX to you as it's a client project but I did source the problem. As part of the import test I converted 5 external .vrmesh objects (Trees) (Vray external reference files, much like Maxwell's MXS format). These were the root of problem with the FBX import in FormZ.

 

After they were removed the scene imports more rapidly but it's still far slower the the likes of Modo, Max, Maya & C4D (my import tests so far show FormZ to be 5-10 times slower).

 

Thea doesn't as yet have external file referencing enabled and FormZ doesn't provide for this beyond Components (which aren't fit for purpose for high poly vegetation, vehicles etc); so the only option the artist has for high poly vegetation, vehicles etc is to embed them within the FMZ scene file.

 

Back to the FBX import itself. It would be useful if at the very least you could provide a loading status progress bar (help manage user expectations with lengthy load times).

 

 

Also a more flexible set of import options would be useful. The animation and deformation stuff can be ignored from the options detailed below but the other options are very useful. In particular it's useful to be able to disable materials when importing FBX scenes that make use of 3rd party render engines. This way you have the option work with your imported geometry from 'ground zero' rather that attempting to import a bunch of material definitions that aren't appropriate for FormZ (or whatever render engine you happen to be using within FormZ).

 

[Tech]

Hi Jon,

 

Thanks for the info.  If the trees themselves are not confidential, can you please place 5 of these in a project, export it as FBX, and if importing that into formZ has the same issue, please email it to support@formz.com so we can investigate and get it corrected.

[AHTOH]

 

 

If you have any issues with FBX, have you submitted any reports?  

Hello Tech

I can submit report:

This is my sample file:

fbx attempt.fmz.zip

These are the default export settings:

And this is the .fbx file I get after import:

fbx attempt.fbx.zip

 

As you might notice it is empty.

Best,

Anton.

[Tech]

Hi Anton,

 

Yes, if you export with Facetted objects as Faces, then it is not exporting properly.  Setting this back to Objects will then export a proper file.   Thanks for your report, we will get this corrected.

 

If you find any other issues, please email them directly to support@formz.com so we can properly log and fix these.

[¢hris £und]

+1 for Bullet Physics!