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Rounding Faces


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#1 Hutchy1980

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Posted 11 November 2015 - 11:39 AM

Hi All,

I've created a text object and a rectangle and want to round the faces of where the two meet to make it look like a moulded brick. I've tried using the trim \split tool with stitch and round ticked, however i always get 2 error messages no matter how big or small the distance, "unable to complete smooth moulding operation" & "Inappropriate combination of objects selected for the Trim\Split operator". I've also tried the round facs tool and adjusted the fillet radius amount from 0.01 to 100 but get the error message "unable to complete smooth moulding operation".

 

Can someone point me in the right direction as to where i'm going wrong? File and image attached, thanks in advance.

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  • Untitled1.jpg


#2 Tech

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Posted 11 November 2015 - 11:49 AM

Hi Hutchy,

 

There are some very short facets at the edges of the objects which will severely limit the size of the rounding that can be applied.  (And if there are any duplicate points or crossing faces in the object, then that would prevent the rounding in those areas altogether -- and you can use the Object Doctor to find such issues.)

 

If you generate your text as Smooth instead of Facetted, then you should be able to apply a much larger rounding radius.  Does that help?

 

If you need any further assistance, please Zip and post the .FMZ file so we can take a look at what you are working with.



#3 Hutchy1980

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Posted 11 November 2015 - 12:11 PM

Hi Tech,

 

Generating a smooth text object does not help in this case, file attached.Attached File  Untitled1.zip   308.98KB   64 downloads



#4 Tech

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Posted 11 November 2015 - 12:24 PM

You can round the facetted objects, but not a huge amount:

 

Screen Shot 2015-11-11 at 12.26.24 PM.jpg

 

Can you post the smooth version of the file?



#5 Hutchy1980

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Posted 11 November 2015 - 12:33 PM

Thanks Tech,

 

What i want to do is round the faces where the two objects meet (text & rectangle). Attached is the text generated as a smooth object.

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#6 Hutchy1980

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Posted 11 November 2015 - 12:37 PM

I'm trying to emulate the attached image so the text isn't so sharpley pronounced around the edges.

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  • BR.0839.002.jpg


#7 Tech

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Posted 11 November 2015 - 12:52 PM

With the Facetted option, the rounds will only extend back until the facets overlap -- and then the bad cross faces are disallowed:

 

Screen Shot 2015-11-11 at 12.33.34 PM.jpg

 

With the Smooth version, you can achieve a bigger rounding value because of the larger curved facets, but when the tight serifs pinch, that will also reach a limit:

 

Screen Shot 2015-11-11 at 12.40.10 PM.jpg

 

If  you Union the two and round everything, you should be able to achieve a rounding of about 2 MM:

 

Screen Shot 2015-11-11 at 12.51.03 PM.jpg

 

If you want to reach a larger rounding radius, then you will need to create geometry, or use a font whose serifs are not so sharp...



#8 etroxel

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Posted 11 November 2015 - 01:00 PM

Another way to do it (I don't have FormZ open at the moment so I can't try it) would be to make your text in photoshop using black text on a white background, gaussian blur the image a bit, and then invert the image and save as a PNG or whatever image file type you like. You can then apply it as a displacement map in formZ. I think this might get you closer to the look you are going for.

 

Look up 'displacement' here in the manual: http://www.formz.com...Help/formz7.php



#9 Tech

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Posted 11 November 2015 - 01:50 PM

Hi Evan,

 

Yes, that is a decent option, especially if he wants it more irregular overall...  

 

(But that won't give "very sharp serifs" unless you use a very dense (adaptive?) mesh.)



#10 Hutchy1980

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Posted 12 November 2015 - 03:51 AM

Thanks for all the tips, i thought is would be really simple and fairly quick to achieve seems i was wrong. I've tried a displacement map, used these a lot in the past, my only issue here is the time it takes to apply the displacement (over 1.5 hours)  and then if you have to tweak it it's another long wait. Also the results with displacement maps are poor at best in my experience if you are looking for an accurate representation of a an embossed surface.

 

Back to my original problem, i'm not trying to round the front of the text as you have shown Tech, i'm trying to round between where the text and rectanlge intersect.  Thanks

 

Dave



#11 Tech

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Posted 12 November 2015 - 08:28 AM

Hi Dave,

 

It should be quite easy to do the rounding if you choose a font with less pointy serifs.  Also, the Displacement shouldn't take nearly so long.  It sounds like you are using a mesh that is WAY too Dense.

 

Rounding the front and the "back" has very similar principles, and in our last image you can see that we have rounded both...



#12 jonmoore

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Posted 12 November 2015 - 09:13 AM

Thanks for all the tips, i thought is would be really simple and fairly quick to achieve seems i was wrong. I've tried a displacement map, used these a lot in the past, my only issue here is the time it takes to apply the displacement (over 1.5 hours)  and then if you have to tweak it it's another long wait. Also the results with displacement maps are poor at best in my experience if you are looking for an accurate representation of a an embossed surface.

 

Back to my original problem, i'm not trying to round the front of the text as you have shown Tech, i'm trying to round between where the text and rectanlge intersect.  Thanks

 

Dave

 

This is a far more difficult challenge than it appears but as Evan pointed out the path of least resistance is often to use a displacement map.

 

For true authenticity you could try using using a sculpting tool such as Mudbox or ZBrush and one of the best polygonal workflows I came across was for C4D which involves using its collision deformer to wrap a highly tessellated mesh over the text.

 

 

The only technique I can see working within FormZ other than Displacement would be to bring your text in as Illustrator splines, imprint onto the block, reshape from the imprint then round. However you won't be able to use a heavily angular typeface as in your example as this will severely limit the amount of rounding you can apply.

 

18Yoz.png



#13 Tech

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Posted 12 November 2015 - 09:29 AM

Even with these serifs you can get a decent amount of rounding (with the Smooth version):

 

Screen Shot 2015-11-12 at 9.27.21 AM.jpg

 

But as noted above, for larger values, wider or shorter serifs will be needed...



#14 jonmoore

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Posted 12 November 2015 - 09:46 AM

Even with these serifs you can get a decent amount of rounding (with the Smooth version):

 

attachicon.gifScreen Shot 2015-11-12 at 9.27.21 AM.jpg

 

But as noted above, for larger values, wider or shorter serifs will be needed...

 

Tech, it's worth noting that Dave isn't looking to round the faces of the 3d font but rather create a blend between the text and the rectangular base (and this needs to be fairly sizable to be noticeable). I'm sure it's his intention to create the molded/cast iron effect via bump mapping (rough dimples etc).



#15 Tech

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Posted 12 November 2015 - 10:01 AM

Jon,

 

Right, the rounding on the back face is between the cuboid and the font.  Rounding the front face is optional...



#16 jonmoore

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Posted 12 November 2015 - 10:54 AM

Jon,

 

Right, the rounding on the back face is between the cuboid and the font.  Rounding the front face is optional...

 

All good. The only reason I raised the issue is that Dave is looking to emulate the rough look of cast iron text (with all the regularities that comes with that process) so a large blend on the base is important to him. The reason I recommended a vector path workflow is that Dave can tweak the vector paths too (add some irregularities) so that the end results are less CGI.



#17 etroxel

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Posted 12 November 2015 - 11:00 AM

A few of questions that would probably help here too:

 

What is the output? Is it a modeled solution? Or a rendering? 3d print? 

 

The reason I ask is that some renderers do an amazing job of displacement at render time, but you can't see it in the model itself.



#18 jonmoore

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Posted 12 November 2015 - 11:23 AM

A few of questions that would probably help here too:

 

What is the output? Is it a modeled solution? Or a rendering? 3d print? 

 

The reason I ask is that some renderers do an amazing job of displacement at render time, but you can't see it in the model itself.

 

Very good point Evan. I was slightly bemused by Daves's quote of 1.5hrs for displacement and put it down to my lack of knowledge regarding RenderZone.

 

Maxwell (in FormZ) or the likes of V-Ray would chew through the render-time displacement on such a simple piece of geometry with hardly any overhead at all.



#19 bluemonkey

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Posted 12 November 2015 - 11:24 AM

I know this sounds a bit long-winded but,

 

Could you create 2 identical 3d text shapes in exactly the same position.

This first is the depth of the fillet/radius you wish to round (e.g. 5mm) - reduce the sharp corners that are creating the problem, add to the block underneath, then 'round'.

The second is the depth of the lettering (e.g. 50mm) with no rounding.

 

The render with both items on.

Would this work?



#20 Hutchy1980

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Posted 12 November 2015 - 11:38 AM

Thanks for all the help, this forum really is superb.

 

I need to generate some renders of this object for the client so maybe displacement maps are the way forward, will have to give this some further investigation tomorrow. I'll also try your technique Jon using the illustrator splines and see what results i get. Any advice on displacement mapping is much appreciated in the meantime.

 

I am begining to think however that there are some issues with rounding intersecting faces, i've created a t-cup and want to round the faces where the handle intersects the body. I've done this hundrends of times before using the trim\split tool, however it will not work for me anymore. There is no error message it just dosent do anything. Attached is a picture with the settings i'm using and i will also attach the file, can anyone see where i'm going wrong or if there is indeed a glitch?Capture.JPG






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