Jump to content


Photo

octane render plugin for FZ?


  • Please log in to reply
25 replies to this topic

#1 3dworks

3dworks

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 336 posts
  • LocationBerlin, Germany

Posted 09 July 2015 - 08:55 AM

i am using octane a lot nowadays (together with lightwave and modo), and would be very interested into having it working directly inside FZ. anyone else?

 

http://home.otoy.com.../octane-render/

 

have a look at the render quality here http://home.otoy.com...ender/showcase/

 

cheers

 

markus


Edited by 3dworks, 09 July 2015 - 08:56 AM.

  • AHTOH likes this

3dworks visual computing + photography


#2 john

john

    Member

  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 19 posts

Posted 09 July 2015 - 10:15 AM

+1

#3 Mike_A

Mike_A

    Member

  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 13 posts

Posted 09 July 2015 - 11:24 AM

+1



#4 jonmoore

jonmoore

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 285 posts

Posted 09 July 2015 - 11:36 AM

Fully behind increased rendering options within FormZ for v9. The Lightworks based Renderzone engine is most definitely lacking by modern day standards and a GPU option to go alongside Maxwell would be welcomed by many I'm sure.

 

The Modo engine is used in Bentley and Solidworks and is a class above too; so if AutoDesSys were able to move to another engine this would also be a great option.

 

Renderman should be considered too (and is my most favoured option) as it's the only third party render engine I know of that renders NURBS directly (without first tessellating them). To quote from the Renderman for Maya docs - "Tessellation settings are never an issue with RenderMan when rendering NURBS and subdivision surfaces. Since RenderMan renders true curved surfaces, NURBS and subdivision surfaces will never have faceting artifacts. Maya's tessellation mode settings are simply ignored and the benefits of RenderMan are immediately realized.". This seems a perfect fit for FormZ. And with Disney making Renderman far more affordable (approx $500 per render node) it's great value too (not forgetting they make an unrestricted PLE version available as a free download too, for non-commercial use).

 

I'd also like to see the IO plugins get a complete overall as they are less than satisfactory at the moment (as has been well documented here on the forum). FormZ is never going to be able to compete with the specialist digital content creation packages for animation purposes so error free exports world be gratefully received. At the moment, a combination of STEP and the Power Translators plugins seems to be the best way to get error free geometry into DCC packages but it creates a lot of extra work as you're at ground zero when it comes to materials and such like.

 

 



#5 Tech

Tech

    Moderator

  • Moderators
  • 4,110 posts

Posted 09 July 2015 - 11:47 AM

Hi Gentlemen,

 

Thanks for your suggestions, we will consider these for the future.  With regards to the Smooth Shading artifacts that can occur with certain shapes when exporting, we have added a new option for High Quality Smoothing to the next beta -- that should solve this issue.  Stay tuned for an announcement (coming soon) for when this is available. ;)


  • jonmoore and Smarttec like this

#6 jonmoore

jonmoore

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 285 posts

Posted 09 July 2015 - 12:49 PM

Hi Gentlemen,

 

Thanks for your suggestions, we will consider these for the future.  With regards to the Smooth Shading artifacts that can occur with certain shapes when exporting, we have added a new option for High Quality Smoothing to the next beta -- that should solve this issue.  Stay tuned for an announcement (coming soon) for when this is available. ;)

 

This is the news I've been waiting upon for a very long time - as Tech knows from many a PM shared over the last 18 month or so!

 

Can't wait to see it in action. :)



#7 ingoerik

ingoerik

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 65 posts
  • LocationHamburg, North Germany

Posted 14 July 2015 - 02:03 PM

Yes, i agree that more render options would be nice for FormZ. When Vray is finally integrated Corona or Octane will be a nice option too ;)


http://www.ingoerikmoltzen.com • Ingo Erik Moltzen - The Virtual Image Maker - CG artist


#8 Justin Montoya

Justin Montoya

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 338 posts

Posted 20 July 2015 - 06:25 PM

Something with CUDA + CPU rendering, like Octane would take FormZ to the next level.  Right now, the aging Lightworks engine is struggling to remain relevant, as it can not even efficiently scale up to render more quickly on our 12+ core machines.   If it could do that, I would accept it in the short term, but we all know that GPU rendering is the future, heck, even Maxwell is tipping in...http://blog.digitalt...-gpu-prototype/



#9 jonmoore

jonmoore

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 285 posts

Posted 20 July 2015 - 06:48 PM

Something with CUDA + CPU rendering, like Octane would take FormZ to the next level.  Right now, the aging Lightworks engine is struggling to remain relevant, as it can not even efficiently scale up to render more quickly on our 12+ core machines.   If it could do that, I would accept it in the short term, but we all know that GPU rendering is the future, heck, even Maxwell is tipping in...http://blog.digitalt...-gpu-prototype/

 

Justin, you should take a look at Modo. The render engine in 901 is of Vray quality and super fast. And the big secret that not many people realise is that you can use Modo Indie on renders up to 4k for $299 (very few restrictions compared to the full $1799 license too but its node locked to a single workstation via Steam). Check out the full Modo 30 day demo first and see if it clicks but now that FormZ is finally getting on top of the smoothing issues you used to get when exporting geometry it's definitely worth exploring.

 

Cityscape in London no longer use Vray and use Modo exclusively

 

http://www.cityscapedigital.co.uk/

 

With regards to Octane it's great for some projects (exhibition stands and such like) but falls down on the memory requirements that are often required for larger ArchViz projects. We ran some benchmarks and well optimised Vray or Modo CPU renders can still best it. And the visual quality of a good Vray or Modo render surpasses Octane every time.

 

Vray Indie is still on 801 but is due to be updated to 901 in the coming weeks. As I say, definitely worth exploring whilst FormZ is limited in it's rendering options. You can even rent it for $25 a month before making a full commitment if you so choose.



#10 Justin Montoya

Justin Montoya

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 338 posts

Posted 20 July 2015 - 07:12 PM

Thanks for the input John.  I've played with Modo, as I have a good friend who uses it professionally and was trying to get me to jump ship.  Its modeling is too slow, and the extreme levels of photorealism are unnecessary for our work, as it is very much meant to be conceptual for selling purposes.  It would be nice to be able to more accurately show modern lighting options (backlit/glowing graphics, LED light tape everywhere), which is why we have been playing with Maxwell.

 

We're mostly doing large exhibit design and interior architecture, but can get detail heavy when the client has the budget.  We need something that is LIVE and integrated directly in FormZ.  It doesn't do us any good to have to export, since we need to be able to do sample renderings while we are still designing.  Maxwell via Fire works OK in this regard, but is far too difficult to setup simple scenes.  I feel like Maxwell needs some default scenes you can pick from and adjust, something like simple mode, similar to Keyshot.  

 

But unless we can get another integrated option inside FormZ, we're kind of stuck.  Though there is a lot of talk now about Rhino, since that is what our CAD associates are using to import our design files with and then do the engineering work and detail drawings.  They have had no issues importing our FormZ files, but occasionally when we need to import their files into FormZ for rendering, it can be quite a task.  That said, I'm not giving up FormZ, it's still wonderfully fast to model with, it's just the mapping and rendering that is lacking these days.  Can't wait to see what the future holds.   :D



#11 jonmoore

jonmoore

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 285 posts

Posted 20 July 2015 - 07:28 PM

Thanks for the input John.  I've played with Modo, as I have a good friend who uses it professionally and was trying to get me to jump ship.  Its modeling is too slow, and the extreme levels of photorealism are unnecessary for our work, as it is very much meant to be conceptual for selling purposes.  It would be nice to be able to more accurately show modern lighting options (backlit/glowing graphics, LED light tape everywhere), which is why we have been playing with Maxwell.

 

We're mostly doing large exhibit design and interior architecture, but can get detail heavy when the client has the budget.  We need something that is LIVE and integrated directly in FormZ.  It doesn't do us any good to have to export, since we need to be able to do sample renderings while we are still designing.  Maxwell via Fire works OK in this regard, but is far too difficult to setup simple scenes.  I feel like Maxwell needs some default scenes you can pick from and adjust, something like simple mode, similar to Keyshot.  

 

But unless we can get another integrated option inside FormZ, we're kind of stuck.  Though there is a lot of talk now about Rhino, since that is what our CAD associates are using to import our design files with and then do the engineering work and detail drawings.  They have had no issues importing our FormZ files, but occasionally when we need to import their files into FormZ for rendering, it can be quite a task.  That said, I'm not giving up FormZ, it's still wonderfully fast to model with, it's just the mapping and rendering that is lacking these days.  Can't wait to see what the future holds.   :D

 

All good. Just offering an option for now. And I was thinking of Modo strictly as a rendering technology.

 

I've been part of the Vray For Modo alpha/beta test team for the last 14 months so I'm well aware of how long it take to integrate a third party render engine at a deep level (Vray for Modo will finally be launched around August/September). Unless AutoDesSys already have something up their sleeve I can't see an integrated third party engine happening in the next 12 months, especially a GPU powered engine.

 

Fully agree that it's something that's desperately needed though (CPU, GPU or preferably both).



#12 pylon

pylon

    Moderator

  • Moderators
  • 743 posts
  • LocationLos Angeles

Posted 21 July 2015 - 08:42 AM

Hi Justin,

 

Maxwell via Fire works OK in this regard, but is far too difficult to setup simple scenes.

 

 

Can you post a link to a project file you are having trouble with? Setting up lighting with Maxwell though formZ should be strait-forward and quick. That's one of Maxwell's strengths. LED strips, glowing monitors, etc. are not a problem.

 

We are working on some sample scenes for formZ, so if you get in touch with your project, we can address your needs. We have specifically looking for an exhibit design/trade show type model to work from.

 

-Maxwell for formZ Support

 

 


  • Justin Montoya likes this

#13 Shibui Design

Shibui Design

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 183 posts
  • LocationAtlanta, GA

Posted 21 July 2015 - 08:58 AM

Just to give a nod to the discussion above; more often these days my clients are wanting to see illumination effects such as LED strips, backlit displays and such. I would really like to see a workflow tutorial focused on this using Maxwell. FormZ is severely lacking in this area. It is time for other/better rendering options. I find myself adding these touches in photoshop but this really gets time consuming when managing multiple changes.


  • Justin Montoya likes this

#14 pylon

pylon

    Moderator

  • Moderators
  • 743 posts
  • LocationLos Angeles

Posted 21 July 2015 - 12:18 PM

Envdesign and others-

 

Can you please provide an example of the look you are trying to achieve? Some examples of good existing renderings and/or photographs.



#15 Shibui Design

Shibui Design

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 183 posts
  • LocationAtlanta, GA

Posted 21 July 2015 - 12:44 PM

Here are some examples.

Attached Thumbnails

  • 215247c6_NuminusClarkMeetingHall_zps8da8b0d0.jpeg
  • b48c8a84b2894367fc80ab1f31ae828e.jpg
  • ET Set.jpg
  • hqdefault.jpg
  • KCNC-News-Set-Pic-3-web-copy.jpg


#16 Justin Montoya

Justin Montoya

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 338 posts

Posted 21 July 2015 - 01:18 PM

Just to give a nod to the discussion above; more often these days my clients are wanting to see illumination effects such as LED strips, backlit displays and such. I would really like to see a workflow tutorial focused on this using Maxwell. FormZ is severely lacking in this area. It is time for other/better rendering options. I find myself adding these touches in photoshop but this really gets time consuming when managing multiple changes.

 

I couldn't agree more.

 

We try to avoid having to do any post production work to renderings since there are almost always quick updates to be made from the clients.  Trying to use Photoshop to fix rendering shortcomings makes a bottleneck when those changes come around.  

 

Using advice from this forum and studying the FormZ manual, allowed me to come up with a simple lighting technique that provides the basis for all the exhibits and interiors I do now.   You only need to understand how to use the Sun light and the other options available to make a single light source do 95% of the work.  ;)

 

One of the biggest problems with RenderZone's lighting options is the poor implementation and control of GLOW lighting.  Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't.  If your glow is in space with only the background or distant object behind it, forget about it, it's not going to show up.  If it does have other objects around it, it's difficult to get it to show up without being overblown.  

 

Here's a couple of examples where I've 'cheated' using transparency maps to mimic glows, and another example where I used Area/Line glows, but neither really read entirely as intended.  

Attached Thumbnails

  • Parallon-20x30-1.png
  • Parallon-20x30-2.png
  • Parallon-20x30-3.png
  • Merz-50x50-1.png
  • Merz-50x50-2.png
  • Danfoss-40x80-1.png
  • True Fitness-40x50-1.png


#17 Justin Montoya

Justin Montoya

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 338 posts

Posted 21 July 2015 - 01:27 PM

Hi Justin,

 

 

Can you post a link to a project file you are having trouble with? Setting up lighting with Maxwell though formZ should be strait-forward and quick. That's one of Maxwell's strengths. LED strips, glowing monitors, etc. are not a problem.

 

We are working on some sample scenes for formZ, so if you get in touch with your project, we can address your needs. We have specifically looking for an exhibit design/trade show type model to work from.

 

-Maxwell for formZ Support

 

Hello-

 

If you take a look at those examples, we need a really basic scene.  Slightly glossy floor that fades to transparent, sometimes a simple background image like the RenderZone implementation, and an overall simple lighting that illuminates most everything, allowing for the detail lighting to be set.  I can send you an example of how I manage this simple lighting in RenderZone, but I'd rather not share it with the 'world' here.  Email?



#18 Tech

Tech

    Moderator

  • Moderators
  • 4,110 posts

Posted 21 July 2015 - 01:35 PM

Pylon's email is:

 

 

Screen Shot 2015-07-21 at 2.36.09 PM.jpg

 



#19 etroxel

etroxel

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 238 posts

Posted 21 July 2015 - 05:27 PM

I've got a few tutorials for my FormZ / Maxwell workflows on my site:

 

http://getmethod.com/maxwell-render/

 

Check out the emitter light tutorials for glowing geometry.



#20 pylon

pylon

    Moderator

  • Moderators
  • 743 posts
  • LocationLos Angeles

Posted 21 July 2015 - 06:55 PM

Justin and Envdesign-

 

Thank you very much for your examples. Based on your input, we hope to have a sample formZ/Maxwell project tailored for your industry soon.

 

-Maxwell for formZ Support






0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users