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#1 Andrew West

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Posted 21 May 2015 - 11:29 PM

I knew that Maxwell was horribly slow and that if I needed to make it work for any kind of business application I would need to buy a new computer to get any kind of decent results.  That said I went ahead and bought it anyway hoping for the best. After spending quite a bit on outside render farms I decided to buy a new computer to streamline my process.  So I just bought a new Xi computer with dual xeon processors running at 2.6 ghz and with 10 cores each and 64 gigs of ram and a $1000 graphics card.  It was not cheap.  I do find that it will render a lot faster than my old i7  960 intel machine at 3.6 ghz.  However, it is A LOT slower when it comes to modeling or doing some very basic form.z work.  Just changing the material parameters from matte to plastic hangs up the machine for 10 seconds.  If I ask it to preview a material in Maxwell the machine hangs up for 20 seconds.  If I copy and paste an object from one model to another it hangs up for 15 seconds.  This is something that should happen instantly as it does in Form.z normally without Maxwell.    After 5 months of trials, over 300 hours of testing and over $10,000 invested in this experiment I have come to the unfortunate conclusion that I can get results that are close enough within Form.z renderzone at a fraction of the cost and a fraction of the time.   What a waste.  Sorry,  just my personal experience for the rest of you to hash on if you will. 

Now I will start my evening chant..............VRAY>>>>>VRAY>>>>>VRAY>>>>> PLEASE!!!!!!!!!!!!


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#2 Tech

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Posted 22 May 2015 - 07:41 AM

Hi Andrew,

 

Which video card do you have, and have you installed the current driver?

 

We recently did some major optimizations for editing materials in complex files.  Are you using the current Beta (8.5) version?

 

 



#3 pylon

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Posted 22 May 2015 - 08:41 AM

Andrew,

 

Again, this is totally abnormal; on a typically installation there are no delays during these operations. Our previous response when you posted on this topic:

 

 

The Maxwell plugin does not consume any resources when palettes are opened and closed, or when the material representation is changed. If there is some inefficiency introduced when another rendering plugin is loaded, then it is something that autodessys will need to address. (Renderzone does not count; because it is developed by formZ, it is not integrated in exactly the same way as a 3rd party plugin.)

If you are experiencing delays, you will need to send your file and all dependencies to autodessys, and provide steps to reproduce.

It is very possible that the issue has nothing to do with Maxwell, and instead with the number (or perhaps, pixel dimensions or file format) of the image maps used in your file. I have experienced an issue with 8.0.2 where use of texture maps can result in a bit of a delay after manipulating Material parameters, regardless of whether Maxwell is in use or not. I have reported these issues to autodessys support. If you would help by submitting your files, your issue-- whether related or not-- will likely be solved sooner.

 

Again, we believe any delay issues when accessing materials does not have to do with the design of the Maxwell Render plugin, but with the way formZ in 8.0.2 handles large numbers of materials large bitmap images, or perhaps maps of a particular file type, or perhaps when the textures are first reported as in-use by a plugin. There is something very specific to your projects (or working environment, such as use of a network disk) that is triggering this issue.

 

Did you submit project files and steps to reproduce to ADS so this could be resolved? If you did, I am sure that the issue has been, or will be, addressed. ADS is a very responsive developer.

 

(As are we-- for instance, you reported that the 'Edit MXM' button button in the Maxwell material representation did not function in all cases. We fixed that in the next plugin update. You also mentioned that you would like to be able to mirror textures in Autotranslate Shaded; which we added as well.)

 

Please try the formZ 8.5 beta and see if that resolves the issue. If not, please submit a project to ADS that reproduces the issue.

 

 

 



#4 pylon

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Posted 22 May 2015 - 01:18 PM

Andrew,

 

There was an important fix with formZ 8.5 Beta 2 which might help with your issue. However, for projects saved in previous versions, you will need to re-link the bitmap textures that were initially reported by the Maxwell plugin to see if this will will solve your issue.

 

1. Start with a relatively simple file that reproduces your issue

2. For each material the uses a referenced MXM, click the 'Update Shaded' button. In the resulting dialog, make sure the color and/or transparency maps are set correctly, then click Okay. This will re-set the maps for that material.

3. To confirm, go to File> Project Info, Linked Files. Do all the bitmap images filepaths appear in the list?

4. Save the file under a new filename, close, and re-open.

 

Does this help?



#5 Andrew West

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Posted 22 May 2015 - 02:44 PM

I am using version 8.5 beta (2) and the latest software from Maxwell.  I have a Nividia Quadro 4400 card with the latest driver.  I have done a save as on my current model and relinked all the texture maps (MXM and normal jpegs) to the file.  The program is creeping along at a snails pace when it comes to adjusting texture maps, material parameters, or doing something as simple as hitting the preview button in Maxwell material parameters.  All these functions should happen instantly.  They do not.  This is not unique to the project that I am working on at the moment.  It seems that once a file gets to a certain size this suddenly starts.  Turning off all the complicated geometry (furniture) does not help. 

 

Now I have a new problem.  In the material editor I want to take a simple wood texture map, under Maxwell Material Parameters I leave it as translate shaded, then I hit the preview button,  then I get a preview that shows nothing there.  Blank preview window with the checker board pattern base.  Weird.



#6 pylon

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Posted 22 May 2015 - 02:47 PM

Did you send the project to autodessys?



#7 Tech

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Posted 22 May 2015 - 02:48 PM

Hi Andrew,

 

I will allow Pylon to answer the "new problem" but if you can send the file as Pylon suggests, we can see what we can do to help with the original issue.

 

Also, which exact card do you have?  It is not the Quadro fx 4400 card, is it?

 

http://www.videocard... 3400/4400&id=4

 

If so, the score for that card is 15 times less than the recommended minimum card on our System Requirements:

 

System Requirements OpeGL.jpg



#8 pylon

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Posted 22 May 2015 - 02:50 PM

Andrew,

 

Sending project files that exhibit the problem is the way to get things fixed. If you want us to look at your wood texture problem, you are going to have to send a file.



#9 Andrew West

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Posted 22 May 2015 - 06:14 PM

Hi Andrew,

 

I will allow Pylon to answer the "new problem" but if you can send the file as Pylon suggests, we can see what we can do to help with the original issue.

 

Also, which exact card do you have?  It is not the Quadro fx 4400 card, is it?

 

http://www.videocard... 3400/4400&id=4

 

If so, the score for that card is 15 times less than the recommended minimum card on our System Requirements:

 

attachicon.gifSystem Requirements OpeGL.jpg

 

my video card is the Nvidia k4200.  Benchmark test is 4200.

Should I have had them put in a card like the GTX 970 instead?



#10 Andrew West

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Posted 22 May 2015 - 06:53 PM

I have been on the phone with my computer tech support and they had me open up the task manager to see what was going on with my machine. I also opened up the Nvidia control panel to see if that is being used as well.  It seems that when I ask the program to do something as simple as mirror a texture map in Maxwell one of my 16 cores spikes up to the limit.  If I ask the program to preview a Maxwell texture one core spike up to the limit for 10 seconds and then all sixteen cores spike up to the limit for 30 seconds and I get a Non Responding message on Form.z.  So they are telling me that my dual processor 8 core each Xeons running at 2.6 ghz is slower and less responsive than my 5 year old i7 960 machine running at 3.6 ghz. It is a lot faster in rendering out an image but if I can't build the model then there is no point in having a fast render engine.  It should be noted that this is only related to Maxwell and their material translator.  Form.z itself is running fine.



#11 Andrew West

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Posted 22 May 2015 - 07:03 PM

The reason that I did not send you a file with an example of the texture issue is as follows:  If I take a piece of geometry like a wood beam and copy it into a new file it exihbits the same issues (blank preview window in Maxwell textures).   If I then do a "save as" to send it to you the problem goes away in the new file.  I do notice however that if I hit the preview window in Maxwell Material parameters all 16 processors spike to the limit and the program hangs up for a while.  This is with only one 6 sided piece of geometry in the whole model.



#12 rob

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Posted 22 May 2015 - 07:27 PM

If you can reproduce something and don't send a file, the chances of it getting fixed are less.

 

One thing you can always try to simplify a problem is to pick a few objects and Save A Copy As with Picked Only.  Then open that file and see if the problem exists there.

 

Hope this helps!



#13 pylon

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Posted 22 May 2015 - 07:29 PM

Did you send the project to autodessys? Or send it to us via dropbox. Since no one else has any issues like this, it will require your specific file to investigate.



#14 Andrew West

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Posted 22 May 2015 - 07:53 PM

If I save the project using "save a copy as" and then relink all my textures the problems go away.  So no, I did not send it to Autodessys as the model I was going to send is now somewhat fixed.  I am guessing at this point that this might be a problem of mixing MXM's and translated texture maps from Form.z.  I have managed to corrupt several models this way.  It happens when my model gets to a certain size or if I start to add a lot of different materials.  Then all of a sudden everything comes to a grinding halt.  Doing a save copy or selecting all the geometry and pasting it into a new file often gets rid of an issue. 

One other thing that might be causing a problem is the lighting scenario.  I am using flat planes with emitters inside the room to simulate bounced light on the ceilings and floors.  The emitter is set to a very high value in my estimation.   The emitter is a plane about 12 feet square and the power is set to 5777 with and eficacy of 88%.  Does that seem high to you? 



#15 rob

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Posted 22 May 2015 - 08:49 PM

Then send the full file with the problem to Pylon so they can help...






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