Smarttec Posted May 11, 2015 Share Posted May 11, 2015 Has anyone else noticed that 8.5 has Real time hidden line redraws in Navigation - it's incredible now in Hidden Line mode. Try it with Rotation and Zoom... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tech Posted May 11, 2015 Share Posted May 11, 2015 Hi Robert, Yes, that feature was added with formZ 8.0.2! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
palarsen Posted May 11, 2015 Share Posted May 11, 2015 What? How? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DMclean Posted May 11, 2015 Share Posted May 11, 2015 I was stunned to find this out so went to test it. It works fairly amazingly well with the built in Navigation tools, but is not really compatible with the 3D Connexions setup I use all the time. Even a simple model of two boxes is jerky since the system stops to recalculate as the 3D mouse moves the view around. Doing a rotation with Alt-Regular Mouse is silky smooth. Assume there is a good technical reason for this. I've also noticed that with a complex model, in OpenGL, the 3D Mouse Navigation can get very jerky when Edges of Solids/Surfaces is turned on but will be extremely smooth and fast if that option is off. Assuming that is somehow related. With Edges turned on using the "normal" navigation tools is fast and smooth. Curious as to why... Thanks, Doug Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DMclean Posted May 11, 2015 Share Posted May 11, 2015 I was stunned too see this, so I went to have a quick test. AWESOME... as long as you use the standard navigation tools. With the 3D Connexions it's almost useless. Even a simple 2 box model becomes jerky as you try to move around. Regular navigation is smooth and quick though. I'm guessing this is related to something else I've noticed. With a large model in OpenGL, if I have Edges of Solids/Surfaces turned on the movement with the 3D mouse can become pretty slow and choppy as the calculations are being done. If I turn EDGES off, the movement is nice and smooth and pretty quick, even with quite complex models. Movement with the standard navigation tools is smooth both with and without EDGES. Assuming this is because of the 3D Navigator driver and its integration into formZ. Curious though as to the why's and wherefore's... Thanks, Doug Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DMclean Posted May 11, 2015 Share Posted May 11, 2015 I was stunned too see this, so I went to have a quick test. AWESOME... as long as you use the standard navigation tools. With the 3D Connexions it's almost useless. Even a simple 2 box model becomes jerky as you try to move around. Regular navigation is smooth and quick though. I'm guessing this is related to something else I've noticed. With a large model in OpenGL, if I have Edges of Solids/Surfaces turned on the movement with the 3D mouse can become pretty slow and choppy as the calculations are being done. If I turn EDGES off, the movement is nice and smooth and pretty quick, even with quite complex models. Movement with the standard navigation tools is smooth both with and without EDGES. Assuming this is because of the 3D Navigator driver and its integration into formZ. Curious though as to the why's and wherefore's... Thanks, Doug Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DMclean Posted May 11, 2015 Share Posted May 11, 2015 Sorry guys... For some reason every time I tried to post I got and SQL error message saying that it wasn't working... Tried a couple of times no joy but the discovered when I came back that all posts had gone through. My apologies... Doug Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobertH Posted May 11, 2015 Share Posted May 11, 2015 I'm having a somewhat different experience. In 8.0.2 going into Hidden Line mode switches the tool to the Pick tool and greys out all the other tools. As soon as I move the 3d mouse, Hidden Line mode is turned off and all the other tools return to normal. In 8.5 going into Hidden Line mode, again whatever tool I'm using switches to the Pick tool and all the other tools are greyed out and are unselectable. The 3d mouse does work but it is jerky. So I can not test with any of the regular navigator tools, because I can't select them, and if they were selected before going into Hidden Line mode, the tool is switched to the Pick tool. The Space key also does not work in Hidden Line mode. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tech Posted May 11, 2015 Share Posted May 11, 2015 Hi Doug, Sorry about the SQL error -- our ISP is working on this and should have it fixed soon. In our tests, the files perform about the same with Direct View Navigation vs using the 3Dconnexion device. Hi RobertH, First make sure that you are using formZ version 8.0.2 or 8.5 Beta. With the 3Dconnexion device, make sure it is set to manipulate the view and not the objects. While you can navigate in Hidden Line display mode, it is not completely interactive, so the modeling tools will be disabled. To use the Interactive View Navigation, just hold down the Command key (Mac) or Ctrl key (Win) while dragging with the right mouse button down, or scroll with the mouse wheel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobertH Posted May 11, 2015 Share Posted May 11, 2015 Thanks for the clarification Tech,Yes the 3Dconnextion device is set to manipulate the view.Ok in version 8.0.2 I can not navigate the object in Hidden Line mode at all. No zooming, scrolling or panning with the control key held down. And like I saidas soon as I move the 3d mouse it jumps out of Hidden Line mode.In version 8.5 I can navigate with the control key and it is much smoother than with the 3d mouse. Using either the 3D mouse or the regular navigation with the control key, the object lines flicker/flash when moving the object,don't know if this is expected.formZ Pro 8.5Windows 8.1, 64 bit; Intel i7-4770 @ 3.4GHz; 16GB RAM32" monitor @ 2560 x 1440 resolution; nVida GTX 970 4GB3Dconnexion SpaceNavigator Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DMclean Posted May 11, 2015 Share Posted May 11, 2015 Wonder if the problem is arising because I am using a two monitor display fed via 2 video cards? OR perhaps a Mac vs PC thing. Also curious about the OpenGL difference with Edge on vs. Edge off difference within the #D connexions test. Mac. OSX Yosemite. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rob Posted May 12, 2015 Share Posted May 12, 2015 Not sure about the 3dconnection, but the hidden line navigation is pretty cool, even on larger files! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
palarsen Posted May 13, 2015 Share Posted May 13, 2015 Very cool! looks great!! Works with 8.5, but not 8.0.2 on macpro, dual screen /Petter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tech Posted May 13, 2015 Share Posted May 13, 2015 Hi Doug, Petter & Robert, Yes, sorry, the interactive Hidden Line was in fact not released in the "release version" of 8.0.2 (but immediately thereafter in an in-house test version). We are not noticing much difference with navigating the Hidden Line using a mouse vs a 3Dconnexion device though. Can someone send a file where this happens for them, and let us know which OS and video card they have so we can test with it here? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DMclean Posted May 13, 2015 Share Posted May 13, 2015 Hi Guys, Here's a shot of a ridiculously simple model that the problem still shows up with for me... I've attached the file, but you can probably build it faster than you can unzip and load it. A bit more testing has revealed that in this model, fairly simple moves with the 3D Mouse work pretty smoothly and quickly, almost as well as standard navigation tools. Lateral moves, Vertical moves and moving in and out are all good. The problem seems to really show with rotations. The view will move fairly nicely, but the will "freeze", then "jump" to a new position assuming I've kept the 3D mouse "engaged". This happened especially if I am combining rotating with moving on other axes, but also with straight rotating. System is a MacPro 2010, 2x 6Core, 2.66GHz, 48G RAM, 2x ATI Radeon HD 5770 cards. OS X Yosemite 10.10.3 Thanks, Doug Simple HL Nav Test.fmz.zip Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tech Posted May 13, 2015 Share Posted May 13, 2015 Hi Doug, Ok, thanks, now we understand. We are not sure why this is slower, but we have added a report ticket to have our developers investigate the issue. Thanks again for bringing this to our attention. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DanM Posted May 14, 2015 Share Posted May 14, 2015 I tried it with a real project (not a simple cube) and it's useless. it's so slow, around a frame, each 10 sec. I also work with solidworks, in there I don't need to wait for the model to render as hidden line and the frame rate of real time navigation is the same as it is in shaded display mode. Dan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tech Posted May 14, 2015 Share Posted May 14, 2015 Hi Dan, It sounds like we could do some further optimization for your types of files. If you are using a lot of Smooth objects, does setting their Display Resolution = Simple: 0% help? Either way, can you please send your file so we can see what we can do to further optimize this? (Thanks in advance...) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DanM Posted May 16, 2015 Share Posted May 16, 2015 Setting the model resolution helps but it's still very far from an acceptable frame rate. Anyway here's a model to play with. https://www.dropbox.com/s/rxbnlb774vu66k6/hiddenlline%20example.fmz?dl=0 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tech Posted May 18, 2015 Share Posted May 18, 2015 Hi Dan, Thanks for posting your file. We will see what we can do to optimize and make this faster. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DanM Posted May 22, 2015 Share Posted May 22, 2015 Here's a little trick for DIY realtime hidden line view: Dan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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