Object color in wireframe view

[Andrew West]

In 6.7 we were able to have control over the wireframe and shaded color of an object that was independent of the material average (from the texture map).  This was easily accessed through the material palate.  So simple.   Now in 8 (if I understand this correctly):

 

Objects are also generated with a black edge color by default. If you wish to
change this for an existing object, you can do this via the (Basic) Attributes Tab
of the Pick Options for any selected objects. If you wish to change this for all
future objects, you can also set this in the File Menu: Project Settings: Objects
Tab.

 

So If I have a material that is spread around a large model I now have to click on each object individually to change its wireframe display color through its attributes tab.  Whereas previously the material palate did that for me as I assigned that material to each object.

 

What am I missing here so that I can get that function back?

[Tech]

Hi Andrew,

 

By default, objects are created with the Material Average color.

 

You can right click on any object and choose Select All with Same Material:

 

 

Then you can choose a different color in the Edge Color Attributes if you like.

 

The way Materials are handled now, it is not currently possible to control the color via the Material Parameters themselves, but we are investigating whether it is possible to add that for the future.  

[Andrew West]

Here is what I am dealing with at the moment.

 

Huge model was created in Revit years ago right before the recession and now it is being revived and reworked.  When I imported the dwg or 3ds  into Form.z all the geometry was triangulated which did not work for me.  So I exported it out as an obj file and all the material assignments were lost (but the geometry was good).  One grey material for all.  Now I want to assign materials by just dragging the correct one to each piece of the model.  As I do that the wireframe model remains grey and I have no idea whether I am assigning the material to the correct geometry. To do it correctly I need to work in shaded mode which is also not ideal.   So my work around is to create bright primary colored materials for the ones that I will eventually use and assign them as I go.  Then when finished I will select those objects by material  and globally texture map them.  Awkward.  It was so much easier and more organized when I could create geometry with different colors (not material average)  in wireframe mode.

 

 

[Tech]

Hi Andrew,

 

First, why not just choose the Join Adjacent Coplanar Faces option in the DWG or 3DS Import Options?

 

Second, you should be able to see colors in Wireframe.  Start by setting the Material Average attribute for all objects, and color them with the desired colors.  Just make sure you have the Show Color option set in the Display Options...

[Andrew West]

Join Adjacent Coplanar Faces did not work in either of the DWG or 3DS files.  I tried it about 8  different ways with no luck.  I have it set to "construct 3D" and "Join" and it never works out of Revit or any Autodesk product.  Very common problem for me that has been around for decades.  Sometimes when it does work I get pieces and parts of the geometry as the program tries to guess at the reconstruction.

 

As for seeing colors in wireframe if I set it to material average and I use my texture maps the average becomes very hard to distinguish.  That is why I always used some primary colors for the wireframe mode. 

 

At the moment I am just dragging materials from my palate onto the faces of the model rather than assigning them to the entire object.  Seems faster.  However,  I still have no way to distinguish the materials in wireframe mode when things get complicated.

I really need to rethink how I work with other peoples models.  It is a huge part of my work as most Architects create some sort of model in Revit (or god forbid Sketchup) that they want me to work with. 

[ZTEK]

Andrew,

 

If I understand correctly, you could generate first some simple objects (such as cubes), and assign to them the combination of attributes that you need (color, material, style, weight, etc.). After that, you can use the Copy Attributes tool, picking first in the objects you want to change, according to the attributes previously assigned to sample objects. Sadly, this tool only works at object level and not at face, what would be ideal. Also, you need to change the display option you prefer to show colors.

 

Best,

 

Marcelo

[Tech]

Hi Andrew,

 

You should not need the Construct unless separate parts need to be combined.

 

From Autocad or Revit, choose the DWG with Facetted objects as ACIS objects, or use SAT directly.

 

If necessary (and by following what we suggest above it shouldn't be), start by using primary colors FIRST.  Once they are all applied, then change the primary material colors to the desired map images.

 

Hope that helps...

[Andrew West]

I tried again exporting the file out of 3ds Max and Autocad.  DWG export does not work at all.  I believe they have a limit to the size of a DWG you can export.  I was able to export a 3DS file (13 mb) and a SAT (420 MB).  See the results on the attached image.  My fallback has always to export as OBJ since it always works but looses my textures. 

[Tech]

Hi Andrew,

 

Please send the Autocad (not MAX) native DWG file so we can try to help.

[Andrew West]

I broke the DWG apart in Max and exported out part of it.  Imported into Form.z with Join Adjacent selected and NO Construct 3D selected.  Here is the result.  Heavily triangulated and objects improperly formed ( front and back faces of objects are not connected)

[Andrew West]

Its big so I will send via support@formz.com

[Tech]

That's cause Max Triangulates everything.  If the faces are Planar, the Join Adjacent should fix it, but if you can't send the file, any further comment would only be speculation.  Can you send  a part?

[Andrew West]

I sent the original DWG that I got from the client.  It came directly out of Revit.  When opened in DWG Trueview it was not triangulated.  When opened in Max it was not triangulated.  When opened in Form.z with Join Adjacent selected it was heavily triangulated. 

[Tech]

Hi Andrew,

 

AutoCad, Revit, and Max have an option to not show the subdivision edges -- but they are there

 

With this DWG, many of the Coplanars are being Joined at Import, but not all, due to the nature of the geometry.  However, after Importing, if you use the UnMesh tool, then this will remove all that can be removed:

 

 

 

The remaining Triangulation lines are still there because without them, the surfaces would not be Planar (which will be the case regardless of what format you use).  You could either scale those faces flat, or just rebuild them.  Or you could ask the author of the "junk" to create it right for you (if they don't want to pay you to fix their problems).

 

Hope this helps, and good luck...

 

[Andrew West]

 I just don't understand why the geometry coming out of Autocad, Revit or Max would be non planar by Form.z standards.  So I am back to my old tried and true method of importing the model and then separately clicking on each triangulated piece of geometry to remove the triangulation.  Or rebuild.  By the way,  unmesh doesn't seem to do anything on my model.  I used Reduce Mesh to get it smaller.  In order to reduce any mesh I need to disable the "construct solid" option on import which leaves me with each face of a wall as a separate object.  I then have to reconnect the faces.  Tedious. 

 

[Tech]

Andrew,

 

UnMesh removes Coplanar faces.

 

Reduce Mesh removes edges within an angle of the adjacent faces or edges.

 

Non-planar means they are not in the same plane = they are not well defined => you will likely have problems with Renders and you will have problems with Booleans or other operations.

 

This geometry has pretty major problems.  Fixing it is the best solution -- whether you do it or you have them do it.  Importing garbage usually leads to tedious repairs. 

 

Sorry for you luck.  Let your client know and charge for it...

[Andrew West]

Ah yes,  my age old problem of trying to use a clients model.  What I run up against with almost every project is the architect telling me that he has the model and all they want is it properly texture mapped, lighted and composited into a nice background.  They are under the impression (always) that they are saving money and time by providing a model.  If it is a sketchup model I tell them that they have wasted their time and I will start from scratch.  However,  sometimes these Revit models work with only a little tweaking.  Not the case here.  My bigger issue is that I bid a project with only a vague idea of how much work it will take to fix their model. Impossible to know until I get really deep into it. 

[Tech]

Hi Andrew,

 

We feel your pain.  Our general practice is to insist on seeing the model first before providing a definitive quote.  That way you can verify the integrity of their data -- or let them know there will be an additional cost to fix it...

[Andrew West]

On a final question concerning the import issues: Why is it that OBJ  creates non triangulated geometry while DWG and 3DS both heavily triangulate?  You suggest that the original model was poorly built with non planar geometry.  Does OBJ export out of Autodesk software somehow correct for this?   I checked the geometry imported with OBJ and it is all planar.  For the future it would solve all my problems if OBJ import could bring in materials.  Not sure that is possible though.

[Tech]

Hi Andrew,

 

OBJ does bring in Materials.  Either you are not writing them correctly, or perhaps you did not copy the .MTL file that is associated with the .OBJ file that specifies these materials.

 

Did you click on your objects with the Triangulate tool and the Strict Planarity option?  It is possible that they are doing something when the export, but I would guess that the surfaces are still not completely planar...  

 

Of course, you could always ask Autodesk questions regarding what they do during their export (if you can get an answer from them).

[Andrew West]

I export out of Max with "export materials" and "create material library" enabled.  When I import into Form.z I enable "import texture maps".  No materials come in with the model.  Everything is one material.  Form.z does not ask to locate the material library and obviously does not look for it.

 

As for planarity when I bring the model in as an OBJ I have checked the Strict Planarity option and the geometry is fine. 

[Tech]

Dear Andrew,

 

If you would like us to investigate or comment on an OBJ file, please send it and the MTL file so we can take a look.

[Andrew West]

Here you go.  A quick test project exported out of Max with three materials and three objects.  I just can't seem to figure out how to import this into Form.z with the materials.

OBJ test.zip

[Tech]

Hi Andrew,

 

We imported this file into a half dozen different programs and are not getting different colors with any of them (just green).  Looks like the issue is with the way the file is being written and not the way it is being read (if they are supposed to have different colors).

 

We were also interested about your comments regarding planar vs nonplanar faces.  However, we can't investigate that with this file as these are just basic primitives...

[Andrew West]

I don't see any other way to write this file.  I am given the opportunity to export textures and Max creates a MTL file along with the OBJ. I just don't see a way to import the MTL file into Form.z along with the model. 

 

As for planar surfaces I sent you a file via email (vail spa.dwg)  that you can experiment with.  It is the one that triangulates heavily on import.  I will send you the OBJ output of the same model that comes in clean.