3dworks Posted November 13, 2014 Share Posted November 13, 2014 is a vray plugin still in the works for FZ? and if so, what features would it support? any hints would be really appreciated. cheers markus Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kevin Posted November 14, 2014 Share Posted November 14, 2014 Yes... I would be interested in this as well. The more I use the program, the more I realize that I need Maxwell, etc. to fully realize what's in my head. Don't get me wrong... I know that people can create amazing images with Renderzone but these other programs seem to make more sense to me. They just seem more robust. That's probably the benefit of getting a dedicated rendering program though. I have been very happy with the modelling capabilities of FormZ for years, and version 7 made it even easier/quicker for me to construct the things that I wanted to do, but my final renders have still been lacking (even with all of the support that I've received here over the years). A lot of it is due to me being self-taught I'm sure but... what can you do? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3dworks Posted November 15, 2014 Author Share Posted November 15, 2014 if it is not going to be vray, please have a look at this, probably the next big thing: https://corona-renderer.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonmoore Posted November 15, 2014 Share Posted November 15, 2014 if it is not going to be vray, please have a look at this, probably the next big thing: https://corona-renderer.com Corona is a fantastic rendering option. Not into classifying things as 'the next big thing' though as there's a wealth of wonderful rendering options available these days. The main problem I can foresee with Corona in regard to FormZ is that it doesn't exist for OS X and I would hope that Autodessys doesn't start partnering with companies that only offer a single OS solution (the heritage of FormZ is Mac operating system based and I'm pretty sure OS X is still a sizable proportion of Autodessys customer segments). The Corona team is very small and it's taken them an age to get to the point they're at at the moment so I can't see an OS X port happening any time soon. All that being said it's a great renderer which I would put up there with Arnold for being the most innovative around at the moment (outside of the GPU options that are beginning to reach maturity). Arnold is my absolute favourite for exterior shots but nothings beats V-Ray on interiors (where many other rendering options take far too long to resolve to clean results). Much as I'd love to see V-Ray, Corona or Arnold available for FormZ I think Thea Render as a far better fit for the majority of FormZ customers at the moment. And in reality Solid Iris are the only developer showing any real interest in developing a FormZ plugin option (in public at least, who knows what conversations are taking place behind closed doors). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3dworks Posted November 15, 2014 Author Share Posted November 15, 2014 corona's team committed to port it to OSX early next year, i read this in the forums some weeks ago. the reason is that by appearance of one of the first plugins - for cinema 4d - the team had many OSX users requesting it. so it could be ready by the time they officially release it around springtime next year - that's at least what i got as information. sure a mature system like vray with it's loads of ready materials and workflow knowledge would more than suit FZ. but the corona renderer has a totally different approach to rendering, as it almost does have zero configuration for rendering. the ease of use of an unbiased brute force engine was combined with the speed of a fast optimised biased and physical based renderer. that's why so many big and small studios are adopting it already. as for thea - it sure is a nice engine, but as for the image quality, compare the image quality of thea with corona's renderings in their galleries and see for yourself... ;-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonmoore Posted November 16, 2014 Share Posted November 16, 2014 Great to hear Corona's going to be ported to OS X next year. But I think it's very unlikely that a stable build will be available in the spring, as the C4D version took around 18 months from announcement to public availability. As I say though I'm a huge fan of Corona render and I think this project by Peter Guthries 'The Boundary' speaks volumes about its protorealistic qualities - http://www.the-boundary.com/barts/9a9cnnvie74fu572qq9e6065w471p2 But considering the 3ds Max version still hasn't officially been released it's possibly a bit early to be talking about a stable OS X version, never mind a public release of the C4D version (or future plugin versions). I've been putting it through it's paces since its early alpha versions and it's great to see the work of fundamentally a single independent creative mind bring such an innovative product to market. As for plugin versions for other platforms than those that have already been announced I would have thought that we're at least 12-18 months away from this being a reality. Sometimes we have to go for the jam we can get today rather than constantly chasing tomorrows jam. And with regard to Thea Render, I didn't for a second suggest that Thea is a better quality engine (photorealistic render quality) than Corona but it's mature, has an existing Cuda GPU solution and an OpenCL solution in the works, and a developer openly looking to develop it's next generation of plugins. It also costs less than Corona and because it's materials engine is heavily inspired/borrowed from Maxwell it's a very easy engine for FormZ customers to learn (those that existingly use the Maxwell plugin that is). I'd agree that the majority of the Thea public gallery isn't of the greatest quality but in the right hands it's capable of great renders - http://www.thearender.com/cms/index.php/news/featured-artists/272-sandro-sorce-.html I'd Definitely advise people keep an eye on the Corona blog - https://corona-renderer.com/blog/- as I mentioned in my first post on the subject, I agree with you that it's definitely a render engine to keep tabs on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonmoore Posted November 16, 2014 Share Posted November 16, 2014 Just noticed that Thea Render 1.4 was announced on Friday - looks like another impressive update. http://www.thearender.com/cms/index.php/news/press-releases/347.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ingoerik Posted November 17, 2014 Share Posted November 17, 2014 Hmm, Autodessys is pretty quiet here, hope we get a hint soon since this would be big news for us and FormZ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3dworks Posted November 17, 2014 Author Share Posted November 17, 2014 ...maybe the typical silence before the storm arises? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jsiggia Posted November 17, 2014 Share Posted November 17, 2014 My guess is this thread has prompted an inquiry from ADS and they are waiting for a response before posting here. Joe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AsOne Posted November 19, 2014 Share Posted November 19, 2014 +1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew West Posted November 19, 2014 Share Posted November 19, 2014 I hadn't been on the Corona forum for some time. Simply amazing. I just get disturbed seeing the strength of the other render engines out there and their constant improvements. Try as I may I have squeezed every ounce out of lightworks engine and it just doesn't compare. Very upsetting to be stuck with it for so many years. if we had a "good" render engine integrated into the best modeller around, FormZ & Bonzai3d would take over. In the mean time it is back to photoshop for lots of post production. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonmoore Posted November 19, 2014 Share Posted November 19, 2014 Try as I may I have squeezed every ounce out of lightworks engine and it just doesn't compare. Very upsetting to be stuck with it for so many years. if we had a "good" render engine integrated into the best modeller around, FormZ & Bonzai3d would take over. In the mean time it is back to photoshop for lots of post production. Couldn't agree with you more. Alternative third party rendering solutions will be great when they finally arrive but what's really needed is a native rendering solution that's a match for what is being offered elsewhere. FormZ offers so much more than the average CAD package but Autodessys still seem to benchmark the quality of the rendering solution to what's available in the average CAD package (Lightworks provides rendering solutions to most major CAD packages). Unfortunately clients want to see visualisations that are at least a match for what's available via Max, Maya, C4D & Modo natively. V-Ray, Corona, Arnold, Thea, Maxwell, Octane, Furryball etc are all available as plugins for the majority of the main vendors but the strongest packages out there offer a great native rendering solution too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redrngr Posted November 19, 2014 Share Posted November 19, 2014 IMO, Maxwell 3 Plugin to formZ 8 Pro is Wonderful Rendering engine with some incredible features! Furthermore, Pylon Technical has done an incredible job with the state of the Art Renderer~ Dan S. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonmoore Posted November 19, 2014 Share Posted November 19, 2014 IMO, Maxwell 3 Plugin to formZ 8 Pro is Wonderful Rendering engine with some incredible features! Furthermore, Pylon Technical has done an incredible job with the state of the Art Renderer~ Dan S. Nobody has been critical of Maxwell, it's a fantastic 3rd party rendering solution that's available for FormZ now. But due to it's unbiased nature it's slow in comparison to alternative solutions and it isn't as 'artist friendly' when developing the look of final renders due to it's slow feedback loop. It's fantastic that Pylon Technical put in the hard work to make Maxwell available for FormZ but this doesn't negate responsibility from Autodessys from developing a better native solution than the current Lightworks powered Renderworks; which is definitely showing it's age in comparison to other solutions in the marketplace. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redrngr Posted November 19, 2014 Share Posted November 19, 2014 Jon you say, "It's fantastic that Pylon Technical put in the hard work to make Maxwell available for FormZ but this doesn't negate responsibility from Autodessys from developing a better native solution than the current Lightworks powered Renderworks; which is definitely showing it's age in comparison to other solutions in the marketplace." And I agree with you. Maybe Corona will make it to formZ as a Plugin.... We will see...... Dan S. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3dworks Posted November 20, 2014 Author Share Posted November 20, 2014 maxwell is state of art for image quality and the most realistic render engine on the market, without doubt - and it's FZ plugin is really well implemented! but it is not a universal solution for rendering. vray offers very fast GI and with its tone mapping can produce a very clean, noisefree look, which is very well suited (and requested) for architectural interiors. both are needed... corona is about to surpass vray on the speed side because using latest algorithms with vertex merging etc, but vray is apparently about to catch up as well... for formz, vray will be a good choice, if it is already under development. but if a plugin development would need to start from scratch, maybe corona will be more attractive, not only because of it's easier handling, but also for it's more attractive price point from the user point of view. of course, from a developer's side, probably the SDK quality is more of concern... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bluemonkey Posted November 20, 2014 Share Posted November 20, 2014 Maxwell on FormZ obviously works well and a lot of people love it, Vray plugin would be a great addition and would compliment Maxwell, but maybe as Vray is taking so long the answer may be Corona. I would love to see a corona plugin: https://corona-renderer.com/forum/index.php/topic,238.0.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonmoore Posted November 20, 2014 Share Posted November 20, 2014 To put these forum votes into perspective some important stats and quotes from the Corona forum. - The forum vote was launched in October 2012 and has so far had 495 votes (Modo & Lightwave are by the leaders so far) - With reference to the high number of Lightwave votes the developer of Corona recently said "There is a lot of interest only because some users from some lightwave forum organized a voting raid... we have to take these results only as a hint." - The developers most recent comment states "tell you what, if either one of the groups convinces developers of the software to help us with the implementation, then we do that software first :D" This reveals a lot to me. Developers are well aware that dedicated user groups can hike the results of these forum votes so they take them with a pinch of salt. More importantly, open conversations with the developers of the host software is the most important consideration when decided which plugin platforms to develop next. FormZ wasn't even included in the consideration set for the Corona developer so I'd say it's an uphill battle but if Autodessys show willing and use the success story of the Maxwell plugin as a case study maybe the conversation will move forward. I hate to say it and this is only my opinion so don't shoot me down but I see very little chance of Corona (or V-Ray for that matter) being made available via plugin for FormZ in the next 12-18 months. I'm one of the beta testers for the V-Ray Modo plugin and it's still a long way off being a stable commercially available product. These things take a lot of time and commitment from all involved. As I mentioned earlier in this thread, it's a huge commercial risk for any small developer to create a plugin for a third party platform. The most important thing those developers look for is a willing partner relationship from developer of that third party platform so the onus is on Autodessys to initiate these conversations. Forum communities are a small aspect of considerations a developer takes into account, (especially when the user group communities are small to start with). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AsOne Posted November 20, 2014 Share Posted November 20, 2014 There were suggestions from Autodessys a LONG time ago that a Vray plugin was in the works. I think this is one reason it is fair to ask how it is coming along. For my work speed is critical and Vray is an attractive option in that regard. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonmoore Posted November 20, 2014 Share Posted November 20, 2014 There were suggestions from Autodessys a LONG time ago that a Vray plugin was in the works. I think this is one reason it is fair to ask how it is coming along. For my work speed is critical and Vray is an attractive option in that regard. Not suggesting for a second that the question isn't worth asking with regards to what Autodessys can tell us. Otherwise anything we discuss here is nothing more than conjecture. It interests me that Autodessys have yet to comment in this thread. And seeing as we're in the realms of conjecture this means: a.) They are awaiting to announce something positive with regards to third party rendering plugin availability (subject to finalising current conversations). b.) The have nothing to add to the conversation because there are no ongoing discussions with regard to any new third party rendering solutions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Martin Malinski Posted November 20, 2014 Share Posted November 20, 2014 As was commented, the Corona poll was started 2012.....it actually states that if any software 'was forgotten' then ask for it to be included.......(I see no requests for FormZ) We should remember that with the new features in the range of FormZ apps it is virtually a re-launch of the FormZ product. I'm sure that Autodessys are busy trying to facilitate 3rd party development from many suppliers.......(obviously a biggie would be Vray) ......But with the continued support of Maxwell I think Autodessys have it nailed. Anything else is just an extra bonus; a cheaper render option than Maxwell would complete the package ......renderzone <thea, corona> Maxwell, Vray More importantly good implementation of fbx, dae and skp export would open up these and an array of other options.....TwinMotion, Lumion, Indigo ..........et al Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew West Posted November 20, 2014 Share Posted November 20, 2014 Accuracy, speed and budget have always been critical to our entire business. Unfortunately they work against each other. My clients have often demanded the utmost photorealistic renderings for the least amount of money. The recession made that even worse and it might be years before I can charge what I did in 2006. When budget allows I try to add as much detail and as many lighting tricks as possible to help make a stunning image that won't tie up my computer for days. Simply put Lightworks just doesn't cut it on either the quality or the time. Don't even get me started on the subject of radiosity. I have had more problems with it than anything else over the years. Maxwell as we all know has great quality but again at the huge expense of time. Something that has been repeated again and again in these forums. When I recently evaluated the expense of introducing Maxwell in my office the software was negligible to the cost of setting up and maintaining a render farm so that we could supply our clients with images in any sort of timely manner. For those of you who know other rendering engines it is laughable how easily you can add simple things like glossiness or displacement materials with minimal impact on time. The list options in Vray alone are mind boggling. Form.z has done an amazing job of becoming the most flexible and stable modeling tool over the years. The new build has cut the modeling time in half. But the bottleneck is and always will be Lightworks. I don't see that changing any time soon. As I see it if Form.z wants to ever compete with the big boys they need to do one of two things. Either get Maxwell to significantly increase their speed or get another render engine that competes with any of the above mentioned. There is a reason that I have stuck with this company for 24 years now. But it has been frustrating. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonmoore Posted November 20, 2014 Share Posted November 20, 2014 There is a reason that I have stuck with this company for 24 years now. But it has been frustrating. Well said Andrew. There's a definite reason a lot of talented folk stick with FormZ, it's just that the journey can be tad bumpy along the way at times... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AsOne Posted November 20, 2014 Share Posted November 20, 2014 It is also about having choice... Plugins Rhino: default Rhino, Flamingo nXt, Brazil, Neon, V-ray, Maxwell, Air, Thea, VSR realtime 3DsMax: Default Scanline, Mental ray, Renderman, V-ray, Brazil, Furryball, Finalrender, Fryrender, Arion, Indigo, Maxwell, Octane, Bigrender, Luxrender, Octane SketchUp: IRender, ArielVision, Raylecton, ShaderLight, Thea, Bloom Unit, Caravaggia, Indigo, LightUp, LumenRT, Maxwell, Renderin, RENDERLights, IDX Rendentioner, Su Podium, Twilight, V-ray Revit: Default, Lumion, Artlantis, Maxwell, Octane, Indigo (beta), AccuRender, 3Ds Max linking Maya: RenderMan, 3Delight, V-ray, Holomatix, FurryBall, Octane FormZ: Renderzone, Maxwell Note: some of those engines might be non-photo realistic (I didn't research them all) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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