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vray for FZ - any updates?


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#1 3dworks

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Posted 13 November 2014 - 04:22 AM

is a vray plugin still in the works for FZ? and if so, what features would it support?

 

any hints would be really appreciated.

 

cheers

 

markus


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#2 Kevin

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Posted 14 November 2014 - 03:46 PM

Yes... I would be interested in this as well.

 

The more I use the program, the more I realize that I need Maxwell, etc. to fully realize what's in my head. Don't get me wrong... I know that people can create amazing images with Renderzone but these other programs seem to make more sense to me. They just seem more robust. That's probably the benefit of getting a dedicated rendering program though.

 

I have been very happy with the modelling capabilities of FormZ for years, and version 7 made it even easier/quicker for me to construct the things that I wanted to do, but my final renders have still been lacking (even with all of the support that I've received here over the years). A lot of it is due to me being self-taught I'm sure but... what can you do?



#3 3dworks

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Posted 15 November 2014 - 04:22 AM

if it is not going to be vray, please have a look at this, probably the next big thing: https://corona-renderer.com


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#4 jonmoore

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Posted 15 November 2014 - 10:02 AM

if it is not going to be vray, please have a look at this, probably the next big thing: https://corona-renderer.com

 

Corona is a fantastic rendering option. Not into classifying things as 'the next big thing' though as there's a wealth of wonderful rendering options available these days.

 

The main problem I can foresee with Corona in regard to FormZ is that it doesn't exist for OS X and I would hope that Autodessys doesn't start partnering with companies that only offer a single OS solution (the heritage of FormZ is Mac operating system based and I'm pretty sure OS X is still a sizable proportion of Autodessys customer segments). The Corona team is very small and it's taken them an age to get to the point they're at at the moment so I can't see an OS X port happening any time soon.

 

All that being said it's a great renderer which I would put up there with Arnold for being the most innovative around at the moment (outside of the GPU options that are beginning to reach maturity). Arnold is my absolute favourite for exterior shots but nothings beats V-Ray on interiors (where many other rendering options take far too long to resolve to clean results).

 

Much as I'd love to see V-Ray, Corona or Arnold available for FormZ I think Thea Render as a far better fit for the majority of FormZ customers at the moment. And in reality Solid Iris are the only developer showing any real interest in developing a FormZ plugin option (in public at least, who knows what conversations are taking place behind closed doors).



#5 3dworks

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Posted 15 November 2014 - 12:38 PM

corona's team committed to port it to OSX early next year, i read this in the forums some weeks ago. the reason is that by appearance of one of the first plugins - for cinema 4d - the team had many OSX users requesting it. so it could be ready by the time they officially release it around springtime next year - that's at least what i got as information.

 

sure a mature system like vray with it's loads of ready materials and workflow knowledge would more than suit FZ. but the corona renderer has a totally different approach to rendering, as it almost does have zero configuration for rendering. the ease of use of an unbiased brute force engine was combined with the speed of a fast optimised biased and physical based renderer. that's why so many big and small studios are adopting it already.

 

as for thea - it sure is a nice engine, but as for the image quality, compare the image quality of thea with corona's renderings in their galleries and see for yourself... ;-)


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#6 jonmoore

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Posted 16 November 2014 - 04:12 PM

Great to hear Corona's going to be ported to OS X next year. But I think it's very unlikely that a stable build will be available in the spring, as the C4D version took around 18 months from announcement to public availability.

 

As I say though I'm a huge fan of Corona render and I think this project by Peter Guthries 'The Boundary' speaks volumes about its protorealistic qualities - http://www.the-bound...2qq9e6065w471p2

 

But considering the 3ds Max version still hasn't officially been released it's possibly a bit early to be talking about a stable OS X version, never mind a public release of the C4D version (or future plugin versions). I've been putting it through it's paces since its early alpha versions and it's great to see the work of fundamentally a single independent creative mind bring such an innovative product to market.

 

As for plugin versions for other platforms than those that have already been announced I would have thought that we're at least 12-18 months away from this being a reality. Sometimes we have to go for the jam we can get today rather than constantly chasing tomorrows jam.

 

And with regard to Thea Render, I didn't for a second suggest that Thea is a better quality engine (photorealistic render quality) than Corona but it's mature, has an existing Cuda GPU solution and an OpenCL solution in the works, and a developer openly looking to develop it's next generation of plugins. It also costs less than Corona and because it's materials engine is heavily inspired/borrowed from Maxwell it's a very easy engine for FormZ customers to learn (those that existingly use the Maxwell plugin that is). I'd agree that the majority of the Thea public gallery isn't of the greatest quality but in the right hands it's capable of great renders - http://www.thearende...dro-sorce-.html

 

I'd Definitely advise people keep an eye on the Corona blog - https://corona-renderer.com/blog/- as I mentioned in my first post on the subject, I agree with you that it's definitely a render engine to keep tabs on.



#7 jonmoore

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Posted 16 November 2014 - 05:03 PM

Just noticed that Thea Render 1.4 was announced on Friday - looks like another impressive update.

 

http://www.thearende...leases/347.html



#8 ingoerik

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Posted 17 November 2014 - 06:23 AM

Hmm, Autodessys is pretty quiet here, hope we get a hint soon since this would be big news for us and FormZ :)


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#9 3dworks

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Posted 17 November 2014 - 12:23 PM

...maybe the typical silence before the storm arises? :D


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#10 jsiggia

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Posted 17 November 2014 - 02:52 PM

My guess is this thread has prompted an inquiry from ADS and they are waiting for a response before posting here. 

 

Joe


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#11 ASONE

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Posted 19 November 2014 - 11:13 AM

+1


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#12 Andrew West

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Posted 19 November 2014 - 03:44 PM

I hadn't been on the Corona forum for some time. Simply amazing.  I just get disturbed seeing the strength of the other render engines out there and their constant improvements.  Try as I may I have squeezed every ounce out of lightworks engine and it just doesn't compare.  Very upsetting to be stuck with it for so many years.  if we had a "good" render engine integrated into the best modeller around, FormZ & Bonzai3d would take over.  In the mean time it is back to photoshop for lots of post production.



#13 jonmoore

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Posted 19 November 2014 - 05:26 PM

Try as I may I have squeezed every ounce out of lightworks engine and it just doesn't compare.  Very upsetting to be stuck with it for so many years.  if we had a "good" render engine integrated into the best modeller around, FormZ & Bonzai3d would take over.  In the mean time it is back to photoshop for lots of post production.

 

Couldn't agree with you more. Alternative third party rendering solutions will be great when they finally arrive but what's really needed is a native rendering solution that's a match for what is being offered elsewhere. FormZ offers so much more than the average CAD package but Autodessys still seem to benchmark the quality of the rendering solution to what's available in the average CAD package (Lightworks provides rendering solutions to most major CAD packages).

 

Unfortunately clients want to see visualisations that are at least a match for what's available via Max, Maya, C4D & Modo natively. V-Ray, Corona, Arnold, Thea, Maxwell, Octane, Furryball etc are all available as plugins for the majority of the main vendors but the strongest packages out there offer a great native rendering solution too.



#14 redrngr

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Posted 19 November 2014 - 05:44 PM

IMO, Maxwell 3 Plugin to formZ 8 Pro is Wonderful Rendering engine with some incredible features! Furthermore, Pylon Technical has done an incredible job with the state of the Art Renderer~

 

Dan S.



#15 jonmoore

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Posted 19 November 2014 - 06:08 PM

IMO, Maxwell 3 Plugin to formZ 8 Pro is Wonderful Rendering engine with some incredible features! Furthermore, Pylon Technical has done an incredible job with the state of the Art Renderer~

 

Dan S.

 

Nobody has been critical of Maxwell, it's a fantastic 3rd party rendering solution that's available for FormZ now. But due to it's unbiased nature it's slow in comparison to alternative solutions and it isn't as 'artist friendly' when developing the look of final renders due to it's slow feedback loop.

 

It's fantastic that Pylon Technical put in the hard work to make Maxwell available for FormZ but this doesn't negate responsibility from Autodessys from developing a better native solution than the current Lightworks powered Renderworks; which is definitely showing it's age in comparison to other solutions in the marketplace.



#16 redrngr

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Posted 19 November 2014 - 06:34 PM

Jon you say, "It's fantastic that Pylon Technical put in the hard work to make Maxwell available for FormZ but this doesn't negate responsibility from Autodessys from developing a better native solution than the current Lightworks powered Renderworks; which is definitely showing it's age in comparison to other solutions in the marketplace." And I agree with you. Maybe Corona will make it to formZ as a Plugin.... We will see......

 

Dan S.



#17 3dworks

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Posted 20 November 2014 - 04:23 AM

maxwell is state of art for image quality and the most realistic render engine on the market, without doubt - and it's FZ plugin is really well implemented! but it is not a universal solution for rendering. vray offers very fast GI and with its tone mapping can produce a very clean, noisefree look, which is very well suited (and requested) for architectural interiors. both are needed... corona is about to surpass vray on the speed side because using latest algorithms with vertex merging etc, but vray is apparently about to catch up as well...

 

for formz, vray will be a good choice, if it is already under development. but if a plugin development would need to start from scratch, maybe corona will be more attractive, not only because of it's easier handling, but also for it's more attractive price point from the user point of view. of course, from a developer's side, probably the SDK quality is more of concern...


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#18 bluemonkey

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Posted 20 November 2014 - 07:38 AM

Maxwell on FormZ obviously works well and a lot of people love it, Vray plugin would be a great addition and would compliment Maxwell, but maybe as Vray is taking so long the answer may be Corona.

 

I would love to see a corona plugin: 

 

 

https://corona-rende...opic,238.0.html



#19 jonmoore

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Posted 20 November 2014 - 08:15 AM

To put these forum votes into perspective some important stats and quotes from the Corona forum.

 

- The forum vote was launched in October 2012 and has so far had 495 votes (Modo & Lightwave are by the leaders so far)

 

- With reference to the high number of Lightwave votes the developer of Corona recently said "There is a lot of interest only because some users from some lightwave forum organized a voting raid... we have to take these results only as a hint."

 

- The developers most recent comment states "tell you what, if either one of the groups convinces developers of the software to help us with the implementation, then we do that software first :D"

 

This reveals a lot to me. Developers are well aware that dedicated user groups can hike the results of these forum votes so they take them with a pinch of salt. More importantly, open conversations with the developers of the host software is the most important consideration when decided which plugin platforms to develop next.

 

FormZ wasn't even included in the consideration set for the Corona developer so I'd say it's an uphill battle but if Autodessys show willing and use the success story of the Maxwell plugin as a case study maybe the conversation will move forward.

 

I hate to say it and this is only my opinion so don't shoot me down but I see very little chance of Corona (or V-Ray for that matter) being made available via plugin for FormZ in the next 12-18 months.

 

I'm one of the beta testers for the V-Ray Modo plugin and it's still a long way off being a stable commercially available product. These things take a lot of time and commitment from all involved.

 

As I mentioned earlier in this thread, it's a huge commercial risk for any small developer to create a plugin for a third party platform. The most important thing those developers look for is a willing partner relationship from developer of that third party platform so the onus is on Autodessys to initiate these conversations. Forum communities are a small aspect of considerations a developer takes into account, (especially when the user group communities are small to start with).



#20 ASONE

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Posted 20 November 2014 - 01:19 PM

There were suggestions from Autodessys a LONG time ago that a Vray plugin was in the works.  I think this is one reason it is fair to ask how it is coming along.  For my work speed is critical and Vray is an attractive option in that regard.  


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